391. Overcoming Barriers and Taking Control of Your Career with Scott Anthony Barlow

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I am really, really good. I'm excited for this. I know that we had to reschedule a couple of times, but I'm pumped glad to be here. And, yeah, thank you.

Yeah. Equally as excited. Let me give a little intro for you. So, Scott Anthony Barlow is a bestselling author and CEO of Happen to Your Career and host of the Happen To Your Career Podcast, which happens to be - no big deal - over 3 million downloads in 159 countries and is the largest career change podcast in the world. So, congratulations on your success.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. So, do you mind just giving a little bit more background on where you're coming from and what brought you to this mission that you're on around careers, and making these big changes, and helping people figure out where they want to go?

Yeah. I would love to say it was 100 percent intentional. And I just had an epiphany and one day I woke up and I said, "This is what we're doing. I'm founding a company around it." But that's not at all how it went. Not even remotely close. So, to answer to that question, we have to go back a little bit.

Just a little bit. A fun place.

Just a little bit. Okay. All right. Well, so the same highway that runs through Seattle as well runs north and south through Portland, and it's, you know, I-5. And I spent so much time commuting on that. My first year, I was commuting three hours a day back and forth. I was working 70 to 90 hour weeks. Ninety hour weeks were not abnormal. And I was uberstressed. I had gained almost 50 pounds. It was not a great fit at all, not even a little bit. And the 50 pounds came from because I was not enjoying myself and I was medicating. I was going and eating and drinking milkshakes at the burger place next door.

Man, what a cool story and what a great way to find your place. We like to say, you earned the right to turn this into a business just through your own experience. And you said it before, but getting fired - that sounds like a real crappy leader - was a gift and it helped you put you on that path and get that momentum going.

Yeah, it was. Well, and here's the part that I didn't even tell you. The way that it happened was, my boss came down - and I truly think he felt he was doing the right thing, so absolutely nothing against him - and he called all of my direct reports in for a training, and then everybody got there. I showed up to work that day.

Wow. Again, it was a tough situation but a gift, so here you are.

It was. It was. And it really was. And that cemented it for me. Because if it hadn't gone down in that highly embarrassing way, I don't know if I would have made the same type of change.

I love what you're focused on because I can relate to it from my own experience and having been around others on either side of that decision. And those who've struggled to make it, who are still in a position where they are unhappy all the time, and they're just faced with this wall they can't seem to to get over or through. And it's painful to watch because I've had to make a couple difficult decisions myself over the years.

Well, I think what's really fascinating is so many people have had a similar experience to what you just described for yourself, where you were involved in something that was really wonderful for you for a long period of time. But then, also, when you're involved in something that's wonderful, it's sometimes difficult to think about what is next beyond that.

That's such a good point. I mean, this is a tough question, but is there any way or any advice you have for someone to try to get in front of and have the foresight to see over the horizon and see those phases of life coming?

Yeah. I mean, there's a couple things. And this is one of the things where it's like, how do you pack in 17 years worth of information into about seven minutes? But here's the biggest couple of things that we've learned over the years and working with people all over the world to help them do this and help them get in front and see those phases coming.

That's good. I really like that. I love what you said about the must haves. I sometimes call it zooming in and zooming out or you need to give yourself the mental exercise or the place to kind of break out of today to imagine some other place. But sometimes that's too big, to your point, and I've seen that.

I'll give you an example of how this works with reality. I just got to have a really fun conversation with a woman named Kristy Wenz. And we worked with her probably about, I would say, like, five years ago. She was a client of ours at Happen To Your Career. And we helped her make this initial career change. So, part of that was we helped her go through and identify what do you need in your life and in your work right now. Those must haves. And, also, what are you aspiring to as well?

How cool. How cool. Isn't it just crazy how much you can accomplish in five years if you just narrow your focus down and get intentional? It's nuts.

It blows me away. It really blows me away. It's kind of absurd, really.

You said something before about values - and, obviously, we talk about this a lot at The ONE Thing - and the must haves. I see such a connection between those two for me, personally, in what I've seen and my own experience using values. It helps me like a lens to think about my must haves. And what I always say is I don't always notice values as much when I'm there in alignment because it feels like friction free. It feels like there's low resistance in my life, and things are kind of coasting in a good way, and I have a lot more leverage.

It's really kind of fascinating how it impacts people's, not just your feelings, but even in how you show up. So, we've got story after story after story from many people that we've worked with, but I'll actually share a quick one of my own, too. I used to work for this organization called ConAgra Foods. A very large food organization and had a wonderful experience working with them. But I was running a section of their organization in HR leadership.

Oh, definitely. Yeah. You have to experience it to know what that feels like and it's not fun.

We found that it erodes confidence for people. They say things like, "I'm not even sure who I am anymore." And it has really severe both physiological and psychological impacts when you're working outside your values.

That's a good point. But, also, very connected, like you said, similar to values and having resistance. I'm definitely not speaking from personal experience here.

Of course not. Why would you?

Imagine you're the type of person who you're very competitive and you refuse to fail in any environment. And so, you can't draw the distinction between a strength or this competitive disposition you have to want to succeed at things. And so, you find yourself battling into something that's just not natural for you because you refuse to recognize that it may not be a strength. So, you have to get to that root, like what are your true strengths and stop getting in your own way.

Yeah. And I think that's such a great point, too, because that is absolutely one way it works. And another thing that I think is difficult for people to reframe, when we're talking about strengths, is the idea that if signature strengths are really the essence of who you are most, first of all, when you're not working in them, you also feel like a shell of a person a little bit. And then, second of all, they are the cause of both wonderful things and also negative things in your life, too. Because it's two sides of the same coin.

Yeah. It's so interesting. It's like you said, the coin, behind some of your greatest strengths are your greatest weaknesses. And inside of some of what could be perceived are your greatest opportunities or weaknesses could be your greatest strengths when leveraged correctly.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But if you know that, you can start to work with your strengths rather than against it.

Hence, the get out of your own way and stop running.

Hence, the get out of your own way thing. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like running into a headwind.

Well, here's another fun fact. You're probably familiar with Gallup. I mean, most of the people in the world have heard of Gallup. Not everybody knows what they do. I don't even think I knew what they did until maybe, like, eight years ago or something. But Gallup is a really interesting organization and they're really phenomenal at collecting data and utilizing data. Well, they happen to have many, many, many, many millions of data points around strengths that they've collected and analyzed over the years.

Yeah. And then, over time, that one to two hours per day has an exponential hockey stick-like effect on what your fulfillment or the things that you accomplish. Like, we're talking about your friend that you worked with in the wine and writing, look, at five years of probably her just investing a few hours per day into that passion and she's got a whole career.

You're right, and that's exactly how we find it works over and over again. Once you start delving into your strengths, then you find other opportunities to delve into your strengths.

If we can unlock that at scale, imagine what's possible, right?

Agreed. Actually, that's really the big thing that drives me. When you go and look at our website, a lot of people are like, "Oh. Well, you help people figure out amazing careers for them." But, really, the reason our company exists is to help change work and how we think about work so that more people can actually thrive at work. And to your point, imagine what's possible when many people are thriving at work as opposed to just a tiny little fraction.

Yeah. It just goes back to the need to really focus on the whole person and consider your strengths in that as a component, and leveraging that, and giving people the space to do that in a way that is reciprocal.

Yeah. Yeah. Right on. Right on.

Right on. Well, I know we've touched on some of it, I'm sure, but in your framework, if I can categorize it that way, there are seven elements that you really identify to having fulfillment at work. Can we go through those?

Yeah. And we did touch on a few of those before, but let me run through them. So, we talked a little bit about contribution. Almost everybody has this epiphany at some point in their lives. They're like, "Chris, you know what I want to be doing? I want to be helping people." And so, we all have that epiphany. I actually feel really fortunate that we get to help many people have that epiphany.

Otherwise, our economic model is broken somewhere because it's supposed to work that way.

It is supposed to. Yes. True story. So, contribution with an asterisk.

Yeah.

Number two, though, is what we categorize as flexibility and autonomy. And you can think about this as how much freedom you have in how you work. So, if you own an organization, sometimes there's more choices and freedom that are natural choices and freedom. Other times, you might own an organization and it doesn't feel that way. Or certain industries, same thing. Like if you're a realtor, arguably you have a lot of freedoms in many different ways. However, it doesn't always feel like that because you're also trying to serve your clients.

I love that you said that because I think there's a misconception there oftentimes, that someone needs to be in this growth mindset of advancement within this particular linear career path. And it's like phases of life apply here. Maybe you are growing outside of your particular role in a company in different ways and you're good where you are.

Oh, the Nine Box.

Yeah. Growth can mean different things to different people at different times. And so, I just wanted to to drill into that because I think that's such an important distinction to make.

I'm really glad that you said that. And, actually, this is something I would love to get rid of out of society in terms of how we think. I can't tell you the number of people that we've worked with or encountered at HTYC where they are convinced, they have this belief in their head that they must keep growing as it relates to an advancement.

It's funny how that works sometimes.

It is funny how that works. We have these really deep seated beliefs that one thing has to go with another thing and it doesn't.

They are not always so linear.

Yes. They're not always so linear.

You can't break the mold. So, after growth, what do you have after growth?

Signature strengths, which we've delved into, how well your work takes advantage of your talents and predispositions and abilities. And then, supportive people, which we also mentioned earlier. But there are a number of facets, some things we mentioned earlier too, like do you have psychological safety at your work. That's become more of a buzzword, but there's really wonderful data to support it.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't want to miss something, a connection there that I was making in my mind to what you're saying about supportive people. And you said psychological safety in the workplace, and to your point, for sure, definitely, more of a buzzword sometimes and it can mean different things depending on how you want to apply it. But I love what you said about being yourself at work, which ties so much to leveraging in your signature strengths.

Totally agreed. And at this point, there is wonderful research to support that. It's not just a theory anymore. I think that theory has been around for a really long time that, "Hey, if you can be more of who you are at work, then it might be better for people and the organization." But, now, we can actually prove that that is very true. And there's deep reaching impacts not just for the individual but for the team as well.

Yeah. I love it. I love it. Supportive people, accountability, and having accountability partners, those things all feel like they fit in there, too. And having a group of people that you surround yourself by that are rooting for you and in alignment with where you want to go.

Yeah. And they're going to pull you along, too. You mentioned accountability. Support doesn't just mean --

Cheerleaders.

... cheering you on. Support sometimes means I'm willing to have a hard conversation with you when you're not reaching your potential. We mentioned earlier building an Ideal Career Profile. That is something that's personally on my version of my Ideal Career Profile, I want to hang around people that are not going to just let me coast and they're going to be vocal about it if they see me doing that, and I want that.

Yeah. I couldn't ask for a higher form of support than that. And that's what you want. It's just how ready are you for that feedback and will you take it.

Is it always comfortable? No, absolutely not. Is it something that is wonderful for me personally? Yes, absolutely. Values is number seven, which we also talked about. But the one thing that we didn't talk about is it also is not just about who you are and what you value, but also who you want to become and what you value most. It's both sides.

Oh, man. That's so powerful. Who you want to become is such an important, I guess, consideration. Because we're so, I guess, destination-focused at times. Like, I want to achieve this thing, and I want to make this much money, or have these material kind of successes. And sometimes it's really more about who you actually become and who do you need to become to even earn the right to have those things. And that's really where the value comes in.

Yeah. And that's such an interesting point, too. I'll tell you that one of the reasons that Alyssa and I originally ended up attending the Goal Setting Retreat with y'all, it was not because we were not reaching our goals. Actually, we've done goal setting as a couple for, I don't know, 13, 14 years, something like that, so we're pretty good at reaching our goals. Like, we are pretty good at just powering through whatever.

Yeah. Lakeway.

Absolutely. And that was really valuable for us, because we knew that it's so much easier to go through it with a group of people or have other people that are supporting and leading you through it. So, we found that really valuable, even though I teach this stuff to our clients and to business leaders and all kinds of people every single day.

It's so different when you have somebody else asking the question too.

Isn't it? It's wonderful.

Yeah. It's great. It's something special. No matter how experienced you think you are in this, it's way different when you have the kind of mirror turned at you and somebody else is holding it.

For sure. For sure.

Yeah. Well, hey, we could go for hours. I know you've got to go here soon. And I want to make sure we give the opportunity for the listeners if they want to learn more about what you're up to, and they want to find you, and inquire about your services, read your book, where can they find you?

Well, our home base is at happentoyourcareer.com, H-A-P-P-E-N. Happening to your career or happened to your career as opposed to your career happening to you. We also have a podcast, if you like that sort of thing. And you can search Happen To Your Career or HTYC, and we pop up on any podcast player. And that's probably where we get some of the best feedback from all the people that we interact with in our world.

That's so cool. I hope you guys get some success from the podcast and you've taken a lot away from it. But what would you have our listeners take away if they could take away just ONE Thing from the conversation today, Scott?

Well, I think The ONE Thing hands down is, when you know what you want, when you know what extraordinary looks like, when you know what ideal looks like for you, it becomes so much easier to begin working day after day to create that version of ideal. So, the sooner that you can get started on it, the sooner you can find yourself. Like we were talking about earlier, Chris, where you asked how do you stay ahead of that, well, this is how you stay ahead of that. So, begin identifying what that looks like, first on paper, and then in reality.

It's awesome. Scott, thank you so much for making the investment with us today and appreciate you. Let's do this again soon sometime.

That sounds great. Thank you very, very much.

All right. Bye, everybody.

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