445. Shine – 10 Disciplines for Maximizing Your Impact and Inner Peace

Nikki Miller:

Hello everyone. And welcome back to The ONE Thing podcast. We are here with the legend himself, Gino Wickman today. And Gino, for those that don't know him, is an incredibly successful entrepreneur, very well known for creating Entrepreneurial Operating System, EOS for short, a practical method for helping companies achieve greatness. There are over 200,000 companies using the EOS tools worldwide. And Gino has helped hundreds of thousands master their outer world. And now is moving on to helping driven entrepreneurs master their inner world through his new book Shine, which is what we're here to talk about today. Welcome, Gino. We're so excited to have you.

Chris Dixon:

Thanks for being here, man,

Gino Wickman:

Nikki and Chris, thrilled to be here and hope to impact a few lives today.

Nikki Miller:

I think you will. Let's find out. I'd love to hear this journey. We've gotten to talk to a number of incredibly successful people. And I think that you see this evolution to people who go from trying to master the outside world or maybe even succeeding in mastering the outside world to then turning it around and resolving what lives inside. And it sounds like that's a bit of the journey that you're on through this book. And I'd love for you to walk us through how that came to be.

Gino Wickman:

Absolutely. I would love to. So best way I can describe it to try to kind of put it in a contextual nutshell, if you will, I'll try and share this fast. But what has happened over the last three decades is I've created five pieces of content in the world.

And so very quickly, the first is called Entrepreneurial leap, and that's to help anybody who thinks they're an entrepreneur or wants to become an entrepreneur, discover if they are, and then we basically show them the path to become one, if they are. The second piece of content is Rocket Fuel, and that's for when that entrepreneur that I call a visionary needs to find their integrator counterpart to take their business to the next level. Third piece of content is what you already mentioned EOS and the book Traction, and that's helping that entrepreneur run their business like a Swiss watch. There's then the fourth piece of content, which is EOS Life, and that's helping that entrepreneur live their ideal life along with all their leaders. Well, then we get to the fifth piece of content, and that's where we're working our way to what we're going to talk about today, and that's called the 10 Disciplines.

Well, if you think about those five pieces of content, the first four is that entrepreneur climbing their mountain to success. And that's what we all do. And we work our way to climb that mountain, we get to the top of the mountain thinking it's going to feel amazing. And if I've had a nickel for every time I've heard it, they get to the top of the mountain and they say, is this all there is? In other words, there's not that like feeling of complete fulfillment inside. And so there's just kind of something missing.

And so the fifth piece of content, the 10 Disciplines starts to help them go inside and look inside and really find inner peace and fulfillment. And then yes, with those five pieces of content, like you said, I'm teaching what I needed the most. And so just under five years ago is when I kind of got hit upside the head by the universe and kind of woke me up because I sold EOS worldwide. I was kind of celebrating my success and feeling that emptiness.

And then something just kind of welled up and rushed up inside of me, just kind of woke me up to really start to look inside and start to find that fulfillment. And I've been on that journey the last four plus years, and that's what led me to write this book and share this message and kind of open myself up a little bit here and be vulnerable to the world.

Chris Dixon:

It feels like such a natural progression of content. Maybe part of that was through your own experience, like you'd said, and just seeing how things progress. And it's almost like you kind of level up as you go through those different pieces of content. But I'm sure now, looking back, there's things that you can do, which you outline in your book, to be in front of that curve. Like, you don't have to wait until you see success to then start thinking about how you live a more fulfilled life.

Gino Wickman:

I appreciate you saying that, because that's the million-dollar question. I wish I were smart enough to have laid out that content in the perfect linear fashion. I just shared it with you, but that's not the way it came to me, and that's not the way I taught it to the world. But you're exactly right, it's realizing this now and experiencing this and seeing this kind of linear path.

My hope and what I hope we prove to the world is that that entrepreneur in the making that takes their entrepreneurial leap and starts to climb the mountain starts to do this inner work on the front end of the journey so it can be a much more fulfilling journey along the way when all I can do is speak from my experience that it took me getting to the top of the mountain to start to look inside. So I'm hoping that that's the case, but I cannot speak firsthand on whether that is or not.

Nikki Miller:

I'd love if you could define for everyone, how do you sort of delineate? Because I think sometimes people think inner world is just my head, and I don't think that's all you mean. And outer world is just what I achieve, and I don't think that's all you mean there either. So can you walk us through what this actually means to you?

Gino Wickman:

Yeah, for sure. So the best place to start is by defining outer world, because by default, it will help see what's in the inner world. So the way I describe it is those four pieces of content, those first four, I describe it as they help an entrepreneur succeed by every outer metric in the world. They have the people, they have the business, they get the money, the accolades, the family, the friends. So externally, they're checking all the boxes.

Well, what does that leave? That then leaves everything on the inside. And so what's on the inside, I describe it as what's going on below the surface. And so we put on this great face out there because again, we have all that external stuff and we're out there ringing the bell and climbing the mountain and celebrating our success and getting the accolades. Well, the question is what's really going on below the surface?

And so it's certainly in our head, but it's also in our body and it's looking into our soul, what we call true self. It's really looking below the surface and what's really going on below that surface, those tectonic plates, are they shifting? Another way of saying it is your central nervous system. What's going on with your central nervous system? Because I know for me, it was always amped up and there was anxiety and there was discomfort. And so that's those tectonic plates I talk about. So how are you really feeling inside? And so that's anywhere in your body, head to toe. It's anywhere in your energy field, quite frankly.

Nikki Miller:

And I think part of this goes back to, you talk about this in the book, this idea of your inner story. And I'd love if you could walk us through what that means and how you support people in actually achieving it and why you started to share it now. I mean, you started talking about how you got the universal wake up a couple of years ago. But what caused you to really be able to articulate this now?

Gino Wickman:

Yeah. So it is a lot of experience, but where it starts is an entrepreneur knows how to tell their outer world story. We're masterful at it. In two minutes, we can tell you the most amazing story that will win you over and you'll want to buy something from us. Well, the reason I call it your inner story is again, we start with the outer so that it helps you understand the inner. Now, the inner is everything that isn't that stuff what's going on below the surface.

And so for me, what happened for me is I just started to talk about why I felt the way I felt below the surface. Now, I don't recommend that everybody get on podcasts and share their inner story. It's hard and it's uncomfortable, but for some reason I'm called to do this. But the idea is to go inside and really look at what's going on in there and where did it come from?

And so when I tell my inner story to people, I tell the story about how I grew up with a lot of pain and trauma. And what I masterfully did after all of my pain and trauma is I figured out how to create this wonderful persona, my ego, and I joined forces at age 15 to bury down all the pain I felt. And that persona that I created, which was this tough guy, hard worker, get stuff done, it served me really well for 35 years until I was 50. Like I said, then I sold the business. I was sitting there celebrating my success and that's what it all came up. All the pain came up from the past.

And so telling your inner story is just being really honest about what's going on inside of you, what the real emotions and feelings are, and what the real story is that went on that caused those things. Because even the external things that caused the internal trauma, that's still outer world stuff. Inner world is talking about what that did for you, how that feels inside of you, how that's showing up below the surface.

And so for me, the very first time I told my inner story, it was to my wife and I was terrified. I literally thought after I shared my inner story, she was going to leave. And then the good news is I shared my story, she was still sitting there, she didn't go anywhere, and she loved me even more. And the most important thing is I shed some layers. And so we can get into this if you'd like, but we just build these layers of protection around us. And so the layers started to shed away. Then I shared it with my kids. Then I shared it with some friends, and they were still sitting there, and they loved me a little bit more. And I shed a few more layers.

So telling your inner story isn't about having a pity party. It's not seeking some kind of sympathy from people. You're sharing your inner story to get rid of it, to let it go, to shed it, to never have to deal with it again, and just say goodbye to it so that you can go forward with that peace and fulfillment that we're talking about.

Chris Dixon:

How much does the recognition of your kind of true inner story, or even the distinction between that and what you've projected as your outer story began to then influence for you, what is what's next? Like what you aim to achieve or your goals?

Gino Wickman:

Well, the whole thing is a journey. So on that question, it's a really big question because I try to articulate this and I'm going to articulate this this way for the first time, just the way you asked that question. But let's picture the mountain. Okay. And we're climbing that mountain and we're achieving all these goals as we climb the mountain, but we're also having a lot of setbacks. There's a lot of failure as you're climbing that mountain. There's a lot of success as you're climbing that mountain, but the good news is you're heading in that direction.

Well, what I would say to the answer to your question is as you go inside and you start to shed these layers, as I talk about, and you really come in touch with your inner story and what really happened and what's really going on, and as you start to shed, the whole thing is a journey. So it's not like you go sit down and you meditate for 60 minutes and your inner story comes out and you share it. It's a journey. It's a process.

I'm almost, excuse me, five years into this, and I don't know where I am on this journey. I don't know if I'm 100 percent shed or 1 percent shed. I'm more terrified, I'm only at 1 percent. But the point I'm making is the more you shed and the more you can start at the sooner, that journey is better. So when you talk about goal setting and achieving goals, it's just a little clearer. It's a little more enjoyable. It's a little more peaceful. It's a little more fun. Even the setbacks, the tectonic plates don't shift as much. The central nervous system doesn't get as amped up as much. It’s just a calm about you.

And so what I'm finding is you're just better in the storm. You're achieving your goals faster. And so does that answer it, Chris? I want to make sure I'm hitting your question. And it's such a big one. It's hard for me to answer that in one sentence.

Chris Dixon:

No, you're right. That was a big question. You did. I think it's what I heard you say is it's part like the -- like you said, on the journey, your ability to recognize, deal with, find value in purpose. And then I'm just wondering if in your experience and going through this, you see people will have a certain awareness. They change their goals. You're like, you know what, now that I'm more aware of what really matters to me here, I've been focused on the wrong things. And you see a pivot or at least the recognition of a different direction.

Gino Wickman:

Yeah, there's no question about that. And where I'm compelled to go to, and I'm not exactly sure where the two of you are about to take me, but in this book, Shine, there's two fundamental main points. In the first half of the book, we teach something called three discoveries to free your true self. And it's all about the shedding that we're talking about. In the second half of the book, we then teach these 10 disciplines that you implement in your life to greatly increase your impact and your inner peace.

And the reason I bring those up now is because the three discoveries are the what. They show you this incredible possibility. That's what we're talking about right now. The 10 disciplines are the how. They show you how to put these disciplines into your life so that you can get that thing that you want. And the reason I wanted to go there is to come back to your question, Chris, because when you -- assuming you want this thing, assuming you want to free your true self, I know I did it. It ain't easy, and it's scary, but I know I did it. It didn't matter whatever it was going to be, I was ready. But once you know you want that, then it's a matter of getting these 10 disciplines in your life.

And to your point, example is one of the 10 disciplines is 10-year thinking. If you can really shift that entrepreneurial, fast moving, wanting everything now brain to thinking in 10-year timeframes, you are right, your goals will change. You take a whole different view of the world and your life and what's important and your goals. And so there's absolutely, when there's inner peace, there's definitely a shift in what's important to you.

But here's what's important. You will make a bigger impact. You will actually achieve more. So that's the beauty of it. It's not like your goals change from I want to make money, I want to build a business to I want to go live in a cave and a mountain and meditate all day. It's not that extreme. They're just much more clear. And again, there's a calm about it.

Nikki Miller:

I’m glad you said that, Gino. because I think that a lot of high achievers, a lot of entrepreneurs fear this sort of inner journey for that exact reason. They're like, well, I don't want to lose my edge, or I don't want to lose my drive, or I don't want to lose the chip on my shoulder. And I think it's important to identify that distinction because you said earlier that how you were brought up or probably part of that inner story created this outside persona that served you really well, very well, made you very successful. And was there ever a moment of like, uh-oh, if I share this inner story, am I going to be less successful? Am I going to have less drive? And am I going to be less hungry? So I think that's something that goes through high achievers’ head often.

Gino Wickman:

For sure. And so now I'll come back to those three discoveries. Like real high level, I'll share them. And what you're asking about is discovery number three. So discovery number one is I am driven. It's just this discovery that helps you understand your unique DNA, the true self, the soul that you possess as a driven person on this planet, where the 10 percent, it's a blessing and a curse. And so it's all about discovering that. We won't go into too much detail unless you take me there.

Number two discovery is that all decisions are made out of love or fear. And in that discovery, we take you all the way to the root of why you're either making decisions from love or fear. The third discovery is called it is possible to be driven and have peace. And so this is what you're asking me about. And this is what you're talking about. And so in that discovery, for me, I always thought it was a choice. Until I was 52 years old, I thought it was a choice. I thought you either had to be driven or have peace that you can't have both. Well, I'm here to tell you, you can have both.

And so, yes, I thought if I ever found peace, contentment, inner peace, that it would zap me of all of my drive. And like I said, that's my biggest fear that I would want to live in a cave, sit in a mountain and meditate all day. I literally thought that's what happened, that I would just live in a hut for the rest of my life. Well, it's just the opposite. With this drive and this piece, you actually can accomplish more. It's more fuel because it's an inside out fuel, not an outside in fuel. The fuel is now coming from your soul, from your true self, from the inside. Where outside in which drives us is we're being driven by outside factors, competition, pressure, judgment, whatever those icky things are that exist in the world.

And so it is absolutely possible and you will absolutely have more drive. And I jokingly always say in the last five years, I say, I'm going to write a book that says how I found my soul and kept my business because I did think I was going to lose it all if I found peace. And then one last little point, I got a taste of peace in my mid-twenties when my kids were born.

And so when my daughter was born first, the second she was born, I felt something that it was indescribable. I can only describe it as love, but it was this incredible bliss, and it lasted an hour. And it scared the shit out of me. And so I stuffed it right back down because it felt so weak at the time. I was this tough guy and so it felt weak. And so I felt it and I stuffed it down and then the same thing when my son was born. So I got a taste, but my ego just was not going to allow me to have that because I had to go be a tough guy.

Nikki Miller:

So what's -- I have a two parter for you. Foremost, I'd love to hear the inner story that you now share. And also, what the biggest transformation in your outer world has been. Like, how have you, the person, changed in sharing this?

Gino Wickman:

Yeah. No, I really appreciate that. So happy to share it. It's right in the book. And I'll share most of it but, and that's just because it's all in the book and I'll give you as much as I can now. So like I said, I grew up with a lot of pain and trauma. And so the first thing is I moved nine times by the time I was 10 years old. And so I had a very entrepreneurial father and I used to wear that as a badge of honor, but what I realized looking back is how unsettled I always felt. I just always felt out of place, unsettled. I mean there’s a new school I'd be coming into and leaving every single year.

The other thing that happened to me is I was sexually abused twice by older boys in the neighborhood at ages six and seven. And the shame I felt for so many decades around that. I didn't even know what shame meant until I read and learned and dug into the concept of shame. It's literally four years old for me understanding the definition of shame. I would have never guessed that I had shame, but I always felt shame about that. I was bullied and picked on. So I was this really creative, sensitive, tiny kid up until like age 14. And so I was always bullied a lot. And that, I just, as a result, always felt unsafe. And so I was always like on guard, skittish, jittery, whatever.

And so with that trauma, and those are just three examples, at age 15, when alcohol touched my lips and it was never a problem for me, thank God, but I love a beer. But when alcohol touched my lips, it numbed me, it numbed the pain. And I was like, whoa. And at that moment, my ego and I joined forces and stuffed it all down and created this package. This, like I said, tough guy package, hardworking package. I just figured out the perfect persona to never feel that pain again and protect myself. And then I just went to work.

And so like I said, for 35 years, I went to work. Now, during that 35-year run, I went broke three times at roughly age 21, 24 and 33. And the 33 was the worst of it all because I became a millionaire by 31. My goal was to be a millionaire by 30. I missed it by a year, but by 33 I was flat broke, $200,000 in debt with a 5-year-old and 8-year-old, a half a million-dollar house. And in that, I just felt like such a failure as a result of that.

But with that said, I still made my climb and made my run, survived all of that, got all that money back and then some. And so just like I said, put my head down and worked for 35 years. And so that pain that I had stuffed down had always left me feeling very uneasy and anxious. And so, as I did that 35-year run, I just tucked it all in, hit it inside. And anytime something was going to hit any of those nerves, I knew how to head it off at the past so masterfully because I could think 12 steps ahead, so nothing would ever hit my pain again.

And then when I hit age 32, after selling the business, and like I said, when I was celebrating that success, something -- I can only describe it as an awakening, but something pinged my soul and just woke me up and all that pain from the past just came rushing up. It was like my soul saying, it is time to confront this shit. You cannot hide this from the world anymore. It's time to let it out.

Now, for most human beings out there, let it out, tell your inner story, you can keep it in your inner sanctum. For me, like I said, I'm just called to share this with the world because I can see it in these driven entrepreneurs, and I want to help them. And so I kind of look at myself as the eye of the storm. So I'm just right here walking this path with them and sharing my story and hoping they join me, and figure it out together. Because like I said, I don't know if I'm 1 percent or 100 percent of the way there, but I fear it's 1 percent and I'm not even halfway there. And so let's do this thing together.

Chris Dixon:

You said it. It's a journey. Thanks so much for sharing that with us and your story.

Gino Wickman:

My pleasure.

Chris Dixon:

I was curious. Can we talk a little bit about the how, the 10 disciplines, some? And can you share some of the context around those? I think that would be really beneficial.

Gino Wickman:

Of course. Well, what I always love to do with them is I always love to share them all in one file swoop. So just everybody can hear them and know what they are and jot them down if you'd like. And then just please know, as I share this, the first chapter of the book is available on the website, so you can download the first chapter. Okay. So that's at the10disciplines.com. And you can also take an assessment called the true self-assessment to see where you are, how close, how free you really are, how free your true self really is.

But with that said, that's where you'll find these 10 disciplines. And so here they are. Discipline number one, 10-year thinking. Number two, take time off. Number three, know thyself. Number four, be still. Number five, know you're a hundred percent. Number six, say no... often. Number seven, don't do $25 an hour work. Number eight, prepare every night. Number nine, put everything in one place. And number 10, be humble.

So with that, you can work the clock here. We can kind of work our way through each one. I can give a little nugget on each one, or we can drill down deep on two or three. So you know your audience better than I do so you tell me what's calling you and we'll go right there.

Chris Dixon:

I'd like to hear a little context on each one if you're up for it. And maybe if we take a right or left turn and spend some time on it, that would be great.

Gino Wickman:

Just know I could do this for three hours.

Chris Dixon:

Likewise.

Gino Wickman:

So we're going to do what your audience can do.

Nikki Miller:

Don't threaten us with a good time, Gino.

Gino Wickman:

So yeah, that's what we'll do. Then we'll take each one. And then what I'd like to do, if we're going to do it this way is I always like to start each one with the bold statement. That it means if you just do this thing, if you just give me blind faith and let go and do this thing, you're going to get maximum benefit. And then I always like to end each one with a quick action item that will help you bring that to life a lot faster. And then in between, we can dig into and chat about whatever you'd like.

So the first discipline is 10-year thinking. And so first, the bold statement is to shift your mind from short-term thinking to thinking in 10-year timeframes. And so the teaching here in the discipline here is, again, we, driven entrepreneurs, we want everything now, now, now, today, today. And so we're always so hurried and we’re always so impatient. Well, the profound power of this, I learned it at 35 years old, is if you will just shift your mind to thinking in 10-year timeframes, multidecade terms, all of a sudden, what happens for you is there's this calm that comes over you. I mean, I can literally feel it now as I'm teaching it. There's this calm that comes over you, this piece that comes over you. Time literally slows down. You start making better decisions. And then ironically, you get there faster.

There's an old saying that says we tend to overestimate what we can accomplish in a year, but we underestimate what we can accomplish in 10 years. You can build an empire in 10 years. 10 years is a lifetime. And I'm just getting you to start with 10 years. Ideally, you're going to get to a point where you realize there is no time, but let's just start with you shifting to 10-year timeframes. Any questions or thoughts on that?

Nikki Miller:

In The ONE Thing, we talk about a similar concept, which is goal setting to the now. And usually, where we start is our someday in the future. And it's, to me, correct this if this is different, but what I understand is that it's getting a bigger picture into where we want to be, and we might not be able to put an actual pin on it. And it's a bigger vision so that we can work backwards into how we're showing up today. Is that the purpose behind this type of thinking that we can work backwards to align how we're going to show up as an alignment with who I want to be 10 years from now?

Gino Wickman:

Absolutely. But what I would add, what I would suggest I should say, is that what you're doing is you're taking another step further, which we actually do in the book as well. Because I wrote this book with my partner, Rob Dubay, just a wonderful human being. And he's fond of what you just described. So we put it in the book where not only do you take yourself and shift to this 10-year thinking, but he has you create a vision for your life 10 years from now.

And that's what you're talking about. It's like very powerful. That's like adding fuel to this incredible, powerful thing, if you will. But yes, yes, yes is the short answer. What I'm trying to do though. More importantly is to literally get you shifting from this thing I'm about to do right now at this moment, how is it going to affect me 10 years from now? And so it's everything from the comment you're about to say to your loved one.

In other words, how will this show up 10 years from now if I say this thing or this thing I'm about to put in my mouth, if my plan is to be healthy and alive 10 years from now, I might not put that thing in my mouth, a decision you're making in business, this thing you're about to do is that really going to perpetuate and get you to where you want to go. So it's just really every decision being a 10-year decision. You'll just make much better decisions, and there's an incredible calm that comes over you. But again, long, yes, yes, yes to your question.

Chris Dixon:

Well, we've said the purpose of a big goal like this is to help you be appropriate in the moments of your life that matter. And so it sounds like that's what you're saying there.

Gino Wickman:

A hundred percent spot on. We all say it a little bit different, but that's it. I mean, you are absolutely doing the right thing there.

Chris Dixon:

Why is it so important to take time off, meaningful time off?

Gino Wickman:

Well, as we go there, just going to give the quick action on tenure thinking, and that is to, I always have everyone just simply write the date 10 years from now, your age 10 years from now, and then just simply write the number one, most important goal. It will do something for your brain, but just do that one little simple exercise. And then I always like to piggyback once you've done that and just say, do all of your actions and decisions right now align with that thing? And so it's just a great way to get your brain to start working.

So with that, we'll go to your question, which is discipline number two, take time off. Here's the bold statement. Take 130 days off per year and don't think about work the entire day. Now that blows the mind of 90 percent.

Nikki Miller:

I was about to say, you just had half our listenership go.

Gino Wickman:

Hopefully they're still listening, but here's the bottom line. I know it's hard to believe, but first of all, if you just take off weekends and holidays, I mean, you're already 110 days, 120 days into it. So it's not that audacious. But what we're talking about here is recharging your batteries, sharpening your saw, energizing yourself.

But remember most importantly, what we're talking about if we go to where we started in this conversation is we're helping you to free your true self, find inner peace. And the only way to start to do that is to create space in your life for the work to happen. If you're always going a hundred percent, a hundred miles an hour, the truth of the matter is that's an addiction where we're workaholics and all we're doing is numbing ourselves and hiding from the pain and what's really going on below the surface. And when you stop, which is what you need to do from time to time, it will come up. When we are safe, the trauma comes up as Dr. Doug Brackman talks about.

And so this is all about just getting you to recharge your batteries, stop, but also to create space to do this wonderful work that we're talking about. And so for me, I personally take 150 days off a year. I've done that for 25 years now. And I know I'm further ahead in my businesses and life as a result of it. And I take the month of August off every year, which I've done for almost 25 years as well. And I know that that August sabbatical I take every year, I get more done because I come back clearer, sharper, more creative, better ideas, better insights. And I leave on that sabbatical every month with the intention to forget what I do for a living. I come back 31 days later, and hope that I still want to do it in 25 years running I still have, so there's a couple of nuggets there.

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Chris Dixon:

Go with me on a little bit of a weird analogy here. I'm going to try this out, but I've been focused a lot on diet lately, and it's been something I've, I've really been trying to dial in. And I've noticed something really interesting about being more restrictive and almost the calorie deficit at times, that simple foods taste so much better, and because you're not eating an abundance. And I wonder if there's a similar, like an analogy here, like quality over quantity would work too. If you put yourself in a little bit of a deficit, you're going to enjoy the work more and you're going to be more invested in its success.

Gino Wickman:

Yeah. And you're kind of jumping ahead and we won't do that just yet, but you're jumping ahead to discipline five, which is no, you're 100 percent, and that's what it's all about. But hold that thought, but couldn't agree with you more, 100 percent agree. And I'm going to bite my tongue because I so badly want to respond, but I'm going to hold back on the rain.

Chris Dixon:

We'll park that one.

Nikki Miller:

I would say we'll hold it till you get to number five.

Gino Wickman:

Yeah. And let me just give the action on number two here. So take time off. The action is to simply write your number of days off. So do that painful thing, because some of you -- and remember what I'm calling a day off is you're taking the full day off and you're not thinking about work. So some of you are going to write 10, 20, 30, but the idea is just that count them, the last 365 days, how many full days did you take off and just be really honest with yourself. And again, I'm urging you to take 130. So at least you'll know your starting point and it will just simply create awareness.

Nikki Miller:

I love that. All right. Take us to number three, Gino.

Gino Wickman:

You got it. Discipline number three is know thyself. I always say my favorite one, but they're all my favorite ones. But this one, with --

Nikki miller:

I can tell you that this was my favorite one.

Gino Wickman:

Good to hear you say. So the bold statement here is to be your true self 100 percent of the time, 24/7, 365. And so I always like to share a quick, funny story here or a fun story. When I was 30 years old, my wife threw me a surprise birthday party. And as I walked into that room, I saw about a hundred eyeballs yell surprise and I looked around, there are all these eyeballs in the room. And I'll bear the profanity any higher than what I've already swore, because this is the F word.

So, I looked around that room in those 100 sets of eyeballs and I said, holy F, who am I going to be today? Because what I realized in all those eyeballs is there were six different factions in my life in that room. There was my family, my wife's family, my partners, my employees, my high school friends, my new friends, and I was a different person for every single one of those factions. And I was like, who in the heck am I going to be today? And it was an aha moment.

And it was that day going forward, I said, I'm just going to be me. Imagine the amount of energy that that burns. It's just exhausting. But the power of this discipline is it's really all about knowing who you are. So the idea is to be yourself, but you can't be yourself until you truly know yourself.

And so that's why the discipline is to go inside and know who you are. But it does start very much on the surface with understanding what are your skills and abilities. And then beyond that, what are your personalities and your traits? And then beyond that, what are your strengths and weaknesses? And then we get to the good stuff. And that's where you start to go inside and really know who you are on the inside, both who you are at a soul level and who you are at an ego level. And what's really going on there and shedding that stuff and getting really clear. The idea is just to fully be you, as I love to say, let your freak flag fly in the world, 24/7, 365.

Nikki Miller:

Do you think that there's a -- this can become a mile marker for who you're around? Like the best way for me to articulate this is I've found how important this is, is I've gotten older for the same reason that you get in this multitude of people, and it gets a little awkward when you have to ask yourself, who am I going to be today? And for me, it started to become a red flag, so to speak, when I'm around someone and I don't feel like I can be myself. And by the way, that's not about them, that's about me. And yet still, if that happens, I'm like this just might not be the person for me or the place for me or whatever it is if I feel like I'm not allowed to show up as I am.

Gino Wickman:

Yeah. And in the reality, so like we're talking about, what happens is you start shedding layers and start getting closer and closer, closer to who you truly are in your true self, so you can be that true self. And as you shed those layers, yes, there are people in your life that are going to go away. They will energetically go away on their own. And sometimes, unfortunately, you got to start spending less and less time with them.

So yeah, that will start to change. And that's really scary when important people in your life or so-called important people in your life start to go away, distance themselves. Again, either you're doing it or they're doing it. So it's scary stuff, but surrounding yourself by people that fill you up and you fill them up, that's a pretty darn good place as opposed to energy drainers where you leave the conversation and you just feel like crap.

Nikki Miller:

Yeah.

Chris Dixon:

Yeah. Is there a slight counterbalance to be aware of when it comes to like, of course not at the sacrifice of being yourself and letting your strengths shine but is there still like a small degree of like collective adaptability you have to keep in mind here when you're working in and around a team? Because I'm thinking of an example of a few experience where I've had someone be very abrasive and then being themselves to the point where they weren't willing to make the five degree shifts to kind of get with the flow and absorb the culture of a team.

Gino Wickman:

Well, here's the only way I can just answer that because I'm going to give you a spectrum. And let's -- on one end of the spectrum, let's just pretend we go all the way to just 100 percent, full on, freak flag flying, you are just, you're so personified. You are your absolute true self. Well, I believe, and I don't know that I can speak to this perfectly because I don't know that I've ever seen it, but I believe, everyone fully being themselves, would be a much better world. Okay. And I think that those people would naturally draw themselves to each other or repel when not. And so all of a sudden, whatever team is left at the end, or whatever's attracted to that, it's all people just 100 percent being their true selves.

Now, the other end of the spectrum is just a bunch of ego laden traumatized personalities faking it all day, every day. Okay. And that ain't real fun and that's brutal. So every team is somewhere on that perspective. And the beauty is I'm talking to driven entrepreneurs. Everything I've said applies to any leader out there, quite frankly, but I'm talking to driven entrepreneurs. They do have the luxury that it's their business. They have the ability to be a little more vulnerable and be themselves, but it's scary because their teams may change as that happens but they're in the best position to fully be themselves and let the cards fall where they may, then maybe somebody else in the organization that it's a little scarier, a little riskier, but ultimately, my hope and dream is that everyone in the world is letting their freak flag fly.

Chris Dixon:

Good answer.

Nikki Miller:

I love that. So what's the action item on this one, Gino?

Gino Wickman:

So the action item on this one is just to commit to doing one thing. So commit to one thing you will do to get to know yourself better. And so, like I said, we can start with personality and traits and strengths and weaknesses and skills and ability, so you can go take some profiling tool. Just go take one of the amazing profiling tools out there just to know yourself a little better.

We prescribe an exercise, reach out to 10 of the closest people in your life and ask them their opinion of your three greatest strengths and your three greatest weaknesses. Start to get some insight, or you can start to do the inner work, start meditating, go get some therapy. So just do one thing that gets you a little closer to being your true self.

Chris Dixon:

We like The ONE Thing application.

Gino Wickman:

Nice. All right. On to discipline number four, which is be still. And the bold statement is, sit in silence for 30 minutes every day. Ooh, that one scares the heck out of a bunch of people as well. And so, again, it's just simply sit in silence for 30 minutes every day. With that said, you could start with 5 minutes and then go to 10 and then go to 15. When we say silence, that can be meditation, prayer, journaling, contemplation. The idea is just silence. Start to create some space.

What's scary about silence is when you sit in silence, the stuff comes up just like it did for me at 52 when I finally stopped this train, when I stopped this machine that ran so hard for 35 years, the stuff just started coming up. And when the stuff comes up, it's scary. And as Michael Singer says in Untethered Soul, it comes up with just as much pain as it went down. So it's not going to be pleasant, but the beauty is it comes up and it goes away. It dissipates and it's followed by the most incredible bliss.

And so the way to start that process is to just be still. And so our urging is get to a point where you get to 30 minutes every day doing one of those four things in stillness and just let the magic start to happen.

Chris Dixon:

I've been experimenting with that recently, and the benefits have already started to show in a short period of time. So personal experience has been very positive.

Gino Wickman:

Yeah. And we hear that from every one of our clients. It's really hard on the front end, but everybody says the same thing over. They can notice a difference. A funny story somebody said was he drives his, his daughters to school every day and they're teens. They're older, but they're teens. And when he's starting to get a little edgy, they'll say, “Hey, dad, did you do your meditation today?” Because they can tell, they can just tell how much more calm he is when he's meditating and how again, the central nervous system starts to amp up when he's not.

Nikki Miller:

I think this has always been important, but I think it's more important than it's ever been because we are so accessible and because there is so much noise and because we are constantly living in the digital dilution. I mean, I found I created a rule in my house where we put our phones like in a bowl and put them in the front of the house because I found that every like free moment of space I had, I would occupy it by picking up my phone and scrolling aimlessly or checking email.

And it sort of became this like addiction where my mind was just never alone. Like my mind was always looking at something or being occupied. And to go from that to sitting in silence can probably feel like a huge jump for a lot of people. So I also love your recommendation of just start with five minutes. If it feels like 30 minutes is a lifetime.

Gino Wickman:

Yeah. You know what, it prompts me. It's so funny because you say now more than ever, but you know it's crazy about that statement. We've been being taught this for like 5,000 years, at least.

Nikki Miller:

At least. Always been important.

Gino Wickman:

They knew something thousands of years ago that they've been trying to tell us, every generation keeps trying to tell, but we just won't listen. God, I hope 5,000 years from now, we're not still saying, man, I would get it. So it is a funny, funny thing. It's been around forever.

And then I'll just close with the action on this one. And that's simply to do it tomorrow. So literally, tomorrow, when you wake up, even if it's five minutes, you just start with 5, then 10, then 15, work up to 30, but just tomorrow morning, schedule five minutes, find a chair, sit in it for five minutes in silence. Start the clock on.

Chris Dixon:

Love it.

Gino Wickman:

On to discipline number five, know you're a hundred percent. Chris, we finally got here. Hopefully, you remember what that question was, but I'll start with the bold statement. And that is what we're talking about first of all when we say know your 100 percent, this is your work container. Okay. And so the bold statement is decide on and commit to the perfect number of hours per week and weeks per year that you will deliver your craft to the world. Okay.

And so at first people kind of feel, ooh, that sounds rigid, but what we're doing here is we are trying to figure out your absolute perfect work capacity, your work container. And so it's just like that gauge in your car that shows you maximum fuel efficiency, that if you put your foot on the throttle in the perfect right place, you're going to get the maximum miles per gallon. It's the same thing. You only have so much in the tank. You only have so much energy. And the magic here is to just dial in your perfect number.

And so for me, I've always worked 40 weeks a year, 55 hours a week. That's like my magic formula. And one hour more, I start to burn out, one hour less I start to get a little bored. And so I just figured -- so you just figure it out. You dial it in, you pay attention, but that ultimately helped me understand that's my maximum output. That's where I can bring my value to the world and create the most impact without burning out or again, without feeling like I'm twiddling my thumbs. And then it also turns into revenue generation as well. That's where I can generate the maximum amount of revenue.

Chris Dixon:

I mean you pretty much answered my question. It's just like that quality over quantity balance. Especially people that your content speaks to the most, they can fill a hundred hours if they want to. And so it's not a question of whether or not you could do more. From a volume perspective, it's really more about getting the right balance in place for you, as you said.

Gino Wickman:

Yeah. And many do more. And so the other beauty, the other ancillary benefit, because again, I'm just giving you kind of a couple of nuggets for each one of these. The rest of the nuggets are certainly all in the book. But the point here is once you know your work container, and assuming you're an entrepreneur who's building a business, if you keep doing everything you're doing today, two years from now, it's going to take three of you to get the job done, and there's only one of you. So that's where you end up working a hundred hours a week.

And so once you lock it in, again, using me as the example, 40 weeks a year, 55 hours a week, That's my maximum capacity. When the job exceeds capacity, it's time for me to delegate and elevate. It's time for me to now go find somebody to delegate the excess capacity to. And so then I start to build an extension of myself and continue to stay in my sweet spot, continue to increase my value and just start to build a team around me.

So the point I'm making is once you know the work capacity, you have this perfect mechanism to show you when it's time to start to add somebody to your team, delegate and elevate, and hence an organization starts to grow so that it's not this ever expanding thing until you keel over and die.

Nikki Miller:

Well, I think what's really important about this too is you're articulating that you have to figure out what works for you, the individual. And I think one of the challenges that we'll see with all of these systems out there is that someone tries to force every author rightfully so or every entrepreneur, every person who builds the system will stand up and say, this one is the best one. Like you should absolutely follow this. This one works.

And what we always asterisk is that one works for that person really well, and will probably work for a whole host of other people. It doesn't mean it will work for you. You have to find what works for you. So I love your articulation that 55 hours a week, 40 weeks a year is what works for me. And I bet we'll find someone else who is at 80 hours a week for 35 weeks or whatever it is, right? And it's about how you best work, and I think part of the journey I'm sure of know thyself is figuring out what that is for you.

Gino Wickman:

A hundred percent. I have a client, he works 35 hours a week. And he's built an incredible business that throws up a 40 percent profit. And I would guess he works less weeks than I do. So that's the fallacy is thinking that you just have to work all the time. You have to work hard, really hard as a driven entrepreneur. Working hard does not mean working every minute of every day. That's the beauty of protecting your time.

So you're exactly right. For some, it's 80 hours and that's a really balanced life for them. It works for them and their family somehow. It couldn't work for me, but it would for them. Some work less. You got to dial in your perfect formula. But again, let's go back to it's about energy and output. It's just figuring out your body and your energy and what's perfect for that energy.

Nikki Miller:

So what's the action item on this one, Gino?

Gino Wickman:

So the action item here is to write your perfect number of hours per week and numbers per year. So get the gears turning, start thinking about it. And I'll jump to discipline number six, which is say no... often. And so the bold statement here is to simply say no to everything that doesn't fit into the first five disciplines. So this one is hard as it is to do for most human beings, gets really easy once you have those first five disciplines in place.

So when you're thinking in 10-year time frames, you're taking time off, you know yourself, you're being still and you know your 100 percent, what you need to say no to is so obvious. I always jokingly say it's like if somebody told you to eat a worm, you'd say no immediately because it's so obvious and clear you should say no to that. So any request that comes, you're going to run it through that filter. And if it fits in those things, boom, that's a yes. And if it doesn't, it's a simple no.

And the other thing I like to offer up, I personally love saying no. I'm really, really good at it. And I get kind of giddy about it. So when I do it though, I do it in a very nice way. And then somebody taught me, I didn't even realize I always did this, but whenever I say no to somebody and I have to say no all the time, multiple times a day, I'm telling people no, but what he told me I do is I offer up a solution each time I say no, though.

So for instance, I'm doing a podcast right now. When somebody asked me to do a podcast and it's not the right podcast and I have to say, no, I'll always say no, and maybe offer up a solution. When somebody wants me to do a talk and I have to say, no, I offer up a solution, maybe another speaker, maybe another person they can interview. So they always end the conversation feeling good about the no for what that's worth. So, but bottom line is however you deliver the message, it has to be a no.

Nikki Miller:

Thanks for saying yes to us, Gino.

Gino Wickman:

Glad to be here.

Nikki Miller:

What’s the action item on this one?

Gino Wickman:

And so the actual item here is to say no to something in the next seven days. Just practice it. Just consciously make a note to yourself. I'm saying no to one thing this week, ideally doing the next 24 hours, but worst case in the next seven days.

And so on that, I'll take us to discipline number seven, and that is don't do $25 an hour work. And then I always like to follow that up by saying, if you want to make a six-figure income. In other words, it's not mathematically possible. But the bold statement here is to never do anything that you could pay someone $25 an hour to do.

So with that, I'm not knocking $25 an hour work. We need lots of people making $25 an hour out there. It's a nice $50,000 a year job. There are people that love that. That's a lot of money to them. So we're all different. But again, the point is, this is if you want to make a six figure income, and I'm quite certain that's all of your audience, if not most of your audience. But if you want to make 100 grand, a million, 10 million, a billion dollars a year, you're not going to do it doing $25 an hour work.

So we're talking about managing energy. We're talking about maximizing your impact. We're talking about inner peace. You can't be doing $25 an hour work if you want peace, impact and your energy to be high. And so it just simply means you should not be doing administrative work. You should not be managing your calendar. You should not be booking your travel. You should not be doing these things. You should not be checking your email. So you need to be doing $100, $200, $500 an hour work, while others are doing the $25 an hour work.

And then hopefully, as you evolve, and remember we talked about your work capacity, and you keep delegating and elevating and you keep climbing higher. And again, then you're doing $500 an hour work, $1,000 an hour work and so on and so forth, now you have people under you maybe making $50 an hour, $100 an hour. So the people that are working with you are also making more money as well, as everyone is elevating.

Chris Dixon:

Seems like you'll be in direct conflict with number five if you're not careful with letting this kind of work creep in.

Gino Wickman:

Well, of course. Let's do simple math. Let's pretend you decide you're 55 hours a week and you're going to work 50 weeks a year just for really fast math. Well, if the time that you're working is all $25 an hour work, well, we can do the math really easy for you. You're going to make like 50, 60 grand a year. Now, if you do $200 an hour work, so it's just -- you can't debate this. In other words, the math is so simple and so obvious and so clear.

Chris Dixon:

It's just like a mindset though, too, right, beyond the math, which it validates the mindset. It's just thinking this way. It's like recognizing the value of your time and being really intentional about it.

Gino Wickman:

Oh, no question. I was blessed at 23 years old. One of my mentors taught me. He said, don't ever do $25 an hour work. He said, Gino, don't ever cut your lawn. And so even at home, like if you don't love doing handiwork and cutting your lawn, why on earth are you doing it? You can pay somebody $25 an hour to do those things, to free you up, to either be with your family, be with yourself or go work and create value in the world, it's a no brainer. And then again, don't even get me started on the energy. If you don't enjoy doing that stuff and you're doing it, I mean you're killing your energy.

And then the action on that one is to write down your current hourly rate. And so this, we're going to hit yourself between the eyes. And so look at how many hours you're really working, how many weeks you're really working, and then just what your income is and just do the math and you're going to see your hourly rate. So that entrepreneur that's working a hundred hours a week and let's pretend they're making a hundred grand a year, hypothetically, they're making like $20 an hour. I mean, it's brutal when you look at the real math on it, but at least you get hit in the face with reality so that you can start to shift and start to work that number up as you evolve.

Chris Dixon:

Eye-opening exercise, I'm sure.

Gino Wickman:

Onto discipline number eight, and that is prepare every night. Now, these next two disciplines are pretty fast and they're really simple. But I urge your audience not to underestimate it because they're incredibly powerful. And so number eight is again, prepare every night. The bold statement is before your head hits the pillow every night, document the next day's plan. And so that means somewhere when your workday ends and before your head hits the pill, you've got to lay out the next day in chronological order, in a linear fashion.

And so for me, I live from a legal pad, that's my technology. And so before my head hits the pillow, I, with pen in hand and my legal pad, I'm laying out my next day, all my meetings, my calls, my projects, everything I've got to get done from start to finish so that when I wake up, I hit the ground running. Other powerful things that happen is you will sleep better, and you will wake up with solutions to issues and problems that you're trying to solve because your subconscious is working through the night.

As opposed to what most do. They come home. They do whatever they do at home, go to bed, wake up and then figure out the next day, and they let the day come at them, they've lost all control their day. They're going to be less effective. Their energy is not going to be as good and they're just not going to get as much done.

And then the action there is to just do it tonight. So tonight, before your head hits the pillow, just try this on and just lay it out. Now, I do it on a legal pad. You can do it on any technology. You can do it in your phone calendar. You can do it on your tablet, whatever works best for you, but just pick a tool that you're going to lay it out on every day.

Nikki Miller:

I can say personally, Gino, I started this habit years ago and it has been, it was a profound change. And it seems so silly and small, and yet it's the thing that allows you to walk into the day focus. And for me, at least as someone who runs my own company and wears a lot of hats, it just prevents me from getting focused because I look back at that legal pad or I do it in The ONE Thing planner and I'm going to look back at that and I'm going to say, is this an alignment with what I set out to do today? And it prevents me from getting distracted from whatever I already said was the most important things for me to do.

Gino Wickman:

Awesome. So Good. All right. I'm going to jump to discipline number nine, which is put everything in one place. Again, this one is simple as well. Don't underestimate how powerful it is. Put everything in one place. Bold statement here is to pick the one place where you will capture every idea, commitment, thought, action, item and promise. And so again, we are hard charging entrepreneurs. We are busy all day, every day, working through the day. And what's happening is we're making promises, commitments, having thoughts, having ideas, and every time one of those things come up half the time, we just try and remember it for later. Sometimes we'll put on a little sticky note. Sometimes, we'll jot it over here. Sometimes we put our phone notes. Well, all of a sudden, you get the end of the day and everything's everywhere and you forgot half the stuff you promise. And as a result, you're letting people down.

And so by simply implementing this, pick one place to put everything again, I use my legal pad. You could use a tablet. You could use notes in your phone, whatever works for you. But as these things come up, you immediately jot them down, so you don't forget them. And so everything's captured. Then you get to the end of the day. When you prepare for the next day, here's where you now compartmentalize each one of those things that came up. Some you'll take care of right there. Some you'll add to tomorrow's plan. Some you'll just calendarize in your calendar and time block it.

But nonetheless, all of a sudden, you're capturing everything and you're no longer letting people down. You're honoring all your commitments. And then all of a sudden, imagine what that's doing for your energy. When I talked about that chaotic example at first, that is just burning your energy. When you do it this way, all of a sudden, your energy is managed and powerful. You're more impactful and, oh my God, it's so much more peaceful.

And the other nice thing is when something comes up, assuming you created space somewhere throughout the day or something happened in a conversation where you felt the tectonic plate shifting, you have the opportunity to quick jot it down that at 1230, when I was talking to Charlie, I said this, he said this, and I felt this. All of a sudden, you're starting to become aware of these things going on, on the inside, that you can start to process.

And the action here is once again, do it tomorrow. Just do it. Start tomorrow. Pick your one place and just start jotting them down.

Chris Dixon:

I was just going to add that, similar to Nikki, I've developed a process that's been a game changer for me. I'd been doing it in the mornings before I start my day versus the evening, but I have found that stuff tends to pop up in the morning that makes it sometimes difficult to be consistent with it. So I want to try the evening, but what I was going to bring up here is the kind of connection between eight and nine, which is that the reflection and the planning that I'm doing in the morning is that one place that I capture notes and things throughout the day. I'm curious if you have that connection there too.

Gino Wickman:

Well, just do me a favor, say that again, because I missed an important point there, because I don't know how that's different than what I just shared.

Chris Dixon:

Yeah, I think maybe just reinforcing what you shared from my own experience of like, I have a process we use. It's called a 411, which is something we use in The ONE Thing, but I use that to do both the planning and the reflection. And that is kind of like the one place and I guess I'm just making sure that's what you're saying. And you see that the same way.

Gino Wickman:

Well, the difference might be is the one place isn't about something you sit with for a period of time in the day to capture things. So let's pretend you're a 10-hour a day person. Typically, an 11-hour a day person. But when you're going through those 11 hours, you're going through meetings and calls and projects and stuff just keeps coming up.

The idea is as it's coming up during those 8, 9, 10, 11 hours, you're quickly jotting it down in your one place because you're sitting here in a meeting focused on somebody, something comes to your mind or you make a commitment right down there, you just jot it down. So your energy can stay focused on the meeting, on the person, on the project, on the thing, wherever you are, on the phone call that you're on. And so it's just to jot those things down immediately so you don't lose your train of thought, or you don't take the focus off the person. Does that make sense?

Nikki Miller:

Yeah. So it sounds like it's like where you're memorializing all your notes for the day. So that you're tracking whatever is coming through your head. Because I'm sure everyone is, not everyone, but I'm sure a lot of people are like me where it's like, some are on my notepad, some are on the sticky note. You mentioned somewhere in my phone and without somewhere that it can all come together. It's just so easy to miss things.

Gino Wickman:

Exactly right. And then again, you're letting people down. So this is another one that's so sneaky, powerful. And the feedback we get from our clients, again, it's so simple. They say they underestimate it, but they realize now how much calmer they are because they're not trying to remember everything that happened. It's all right there waiting for them.

So again, for me, anywhere I go, I've got my legal pad with me. If I have a coffee shop meeting with somebody, I walk in with my legal pad. And I have people that literally laugh at my legal pad because they're technology people. They think the only option is technology, which isn't true. But so it's always there when I'm driving in the car, it's off to the side. So it's always there when something comes up so I can quickly jot it down and not lose it.

Gino Wickman:

Ready for number 10?

Chris Dixon:

Let’s do it.

Nikki Miller.

Ready for number 10.

Gino Wickman:

All right. The final discipline number 10, and that is be humble. And so the bold statement here is to view yourself as an equal to every person on the planet. And so we're talking about humility here. A couple quick points on this one. Great quote from C.S. Lewis about humility. He says, humility is not thinking less of yourself. It's thinking of yourself less. Humility is not wimpy or less than. Humility is powerful.

And so the way I like to share and teach this always is with a spectrum. If you picture a spectrum and on the end of the spectrum, it says humble. And on the other end of the spectrum, it says arrogant. We are all somewhere on that range. And what's ironic is if you look up the definition of humble and arrogant in the dictionary, it's the exact same definition. It's our view of ourselves in the eyes of others. It's how we view others, how we view others.

And so with that said, humble people -- well, let's start with arrogant people. Arrogant people tend to think they're a little better than everyone and humble people just don't think they think they're the same as everyone else. They think that they're the same as everyone else. So the point here is the exercise is to think about that range and ask five of the most important people in your life that you love and trust and have them simply put a hash mark on the range. So you have a little feedback for yourself or start by you just doing it and then have them do it to see where you stack up.

But the exercise and the action on this one is just put a hash mark on that range. Where do you feel you are? And hopefully you'll end up more toward the humble side of the range than the arrogant side of the range, because I just happen to believe that a humble life is better. You just tend to attract more of what you are. And a humble life tends to attract humble people and a more arrogant life tends to attract arrogant people. And that's just two kinds of different cultures and worlds, if you will.

And so I gave you everything in one fell swoop. They're just kind of managing the clock, but any thoughts or comments there?

Nikki Miller:

That was incredible. I feel like you just took us to school. Thank you. And I do have a question on the be humble point, because I think that I see this with a number of entrepreneurs as well, that they mistake humility for confidence. And I think it's such an important point. I've found that they can intertwine, and they are not usually exclusive. And yet I find a lot of people think that they are, you are either one or the other. And if they lose their humility, they will also lose their confidence. Do you see that come up when you explain this point?

Gino Wickman:

Yeah. And I'm going to try to answer that in a short way because there's such a conversation.

Nikki Miller:

We could go down a whole rabbit hole on this one.

Gino Wickman:

But one of our core values at EOS Worldwide is humbly confident. And so it's one of my core values, one of my original core values when I started EOS Worldwide. And so humbly confident means that you'd know your stuff, but again, you're still humble. So those two words are actually two completely separate words. So never the two shall meet from a standpoint of confident or unconfident has nothing to do with humility because a fun, interesting little fact is you could have a highly arrogant person who's insecure and they will come off as humble. But man, the second they become a little secure, that arrogance comes out in a big, big way.

So the confidence thing is kind of artificial. So the two are just, they don't go together. They're two separate words. And that's why I put them together though so that when somebody is highly confident, they still remain humble. So there are two separate words, very different from each other, but very powerful when they're together. I hope I made that make sense.

And then just one of the little nugget there that that prompts is, is gratitude. Great way to help you become humble to just practice gratitude. It's utterly impossible to feel gratitude and be arrogant. And so for me, one little discipline I have is every night when my head hits the pillow, I just simply say, thank you. I say, thank you to all there is and whatever higher power is at work. I just simply say thank you and it just brings me right down to the ground for what that's worth.

Nikki Miller:

I love that. Well, Gino, I meant it when I said we'd keep you here three hours if we could, but I know you need to go off and change the world a little more. So as we close out, we always ask what's the one thing that you would want our listeners, I'm taking at least 10 things, but what's the one thing you would want our listeners to take away from this conversation?

Gino Wickman:

Yeah. So I knew you were going to ask that. And when I knew you were going to ask that, I purposely didn't want to have an answer because I like to -- this one, I want to answer now because I want to reflect on our conversation and who your audience is and just kind of see what comes to me. And there's two things coming simultaneous. And so I'm just going to say them and I'll try to say them as one, so that I'll honor your system.

But the first thing that came to mind is to let your freak flag fly. Let your freak flag fly. And the second thing, let me just make it all one big sentence, because you deserve it. You deserve it. And I'm talking right into every single soul out there because most of them don't feel they deserve this. And you deserve it. You deserve it.

Nikki Miller:

If people want to connect with you, where can they find you? We'll drop the book in our show notes, but I'd love for them to learn how they can find you.

Gino Wickman:

Well, thank you for that. So the10disciplines.com is our website. You can do the number 10 or spell out ten and there you will find that assessment I talked about, the true self-assessment to find out how free you really are. You'll also find a free chapter of the book if that's appealing to you. And there we offer a self-study for the 10 disciplines, group coaching for the 10 disciplines and a mastermind as well. So that's where you'll find all things shine and 10 disciplines. And then the book is available in any major bookstore.

Nikki Miller:

Thank you so much for being here today, Gino. This is a pleasure.

Gino Wickman:

Right back at you. You guys are good at this.

Nikki Miller:

See you everybody next time.

Outro:

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