388. How to Live a Rich Life with Ramit Sethi

Feb 20, 2023 | 0 comments

Have you ever stopped to consider what a rich life truly means to you? The answer is likely more complex and personal than you think.

While some may believe that achieving financial freedom is the key to living a rich life, the truth is that living a rich life can mean different things to different people.

Today on the show, we’re speaking with Ramit Sethi, a renowned personal finance expert who challenges the conventional definitions of wealth and success. Join us as Ramit shares his powerful insights on how to design and live the extraordinary life you truly deserve.

If you want to align your rich life with your values, visit the1thing.com/values to get in touch with your core values and spend your money where it matters most.

To learn more, and for the complete show notes, visit: the1thing.com/pods.

We talk about:

  • Defining what a rich life means for you
  • How our past informs what we value
  • What you need to become better at in order to live a rich life
  • Aligning values between couples using the rich life philosophy
  • Creating a system to stay on track towards your goals

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Transcript

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Chris Dixon:

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Hi, I'm Chris Dixon and welcome back to The ONE Thing podcast.

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I'm sure if you were asked if you'd like to live a rich life, your answer would be yes.

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But it's also important to recognize that living a rich life is relative to you, and it

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can mean different things for different people.

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It's about identifying what extraordinary is for yourself or your family and designing

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that future being intentional.

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And today I spoke with Ramit Sethi.

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And Ramit shares some really powerful perspective about identifying what a rich

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life is for you, both individually and as a couple, some tools and some systems that can

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help you stay on track to achieving a rich life for yourself.

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So let's go talk to Ramit.

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Everybody, welcome back to The ONE Thing podcast.

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I'm lucky to have Ramit Sethi on the podcast with us today.

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And he is the author of New York Times best selling book, I Will Teach You to Be Rich.

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Also, he runs his podcast.

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He and his team have created over 20 plus programs on making money, finding your dream

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job, starting online businesses, mastering your inner psychology and more.

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He now has over a million readers per month on his newsletter and in his social media.

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Ramit, thanks so much for being on today.

Ramit Sethi:

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Thanks for having me.

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Yeah, I love it. And you said something or wrote something that I love.

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And it's, "I consider it a tragedy to live a smaller life than you have to".

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And that's so big and aligned with what we believe at The ONE Thing about how important

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it is to imagine extraordinary for your life and to be intentional about building that

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life. And I really appreciate what you're teaching and excited to talk to you today.

Ramit Sethi:

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Thank you very much.

Ramit Sethi:

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I mean, we are totally aligned, and I come at it from the perspective of money and

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ultimately a rich life.

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And I think when it comes to money, most of us see it as an obligation, something that we

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should manage.

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We have a very interesting puritanical dichotomy in this country.

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We hate money in the sense that we don't like managing it.

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We don't like thinking about our asset allocation, but we also love it.

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We love looking at people on social media in Bora Bora on a Wednesday in their 3200 square

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foot house with 16 foot ceilings.

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And so when you really have this love-hate relationship with money, but no real

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understanding of how to use it to fuel your rich life, well, it becomes a problem.

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And that has been really my life's work.

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I love that. How did you get into the personal finance and development wealth

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building industry?

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And how did you connect this passion for yourself?

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I got into it because when I was applying to colleges, my parents told me, you're going to

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college. My parents are Indian, so they're like, of course you're going to college, but

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we don't have any money, so you better find some scholarships.

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And I was like, cool.

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I love systems.

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I love building systems, so I don't have to do that much work.

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I built a system. I applied to about 65 scholarships, paid my way through undergrad

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and grad school at Stanford.

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And while I was there, I was studying human psychology, persuasion, social influence.

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And I was also learning about money because I had taken my first scholarship check,

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invested it in the stock market thinking I was a genius and lost half the money.

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So here I am, thinking I was a genius, realized I was not, learning about human

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behavior, and I realized oh my God, most of the ways that we are taught about money have

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no understanding of how we actually want to behave.

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For example, a lot of people right now listening are thinking, I'm going to come on

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here and tell you, you got to cut back on lattes, no jeans, no vacation, no nothing

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until you're 93 years old.

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And then maybe you can take a cruise.

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It's like, I don't want to live that life.

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Neither did any of my friends.

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We wanted to be able to go out, buy a round of drinks for our friends, take a trip, live

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our rich life.

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And so I started trying to teach people in my college.

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Well, I quickly learned people don't really like to go to events about money.

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It makes them feel bad about themselves.

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And so here I am, this cocky college kid.

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I go, you know what, this world needs to hear what I've got to tell them.

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And I could have quit at that moment.

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I'm really thankful that I didn't.

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I started a blog.

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I said, maybe these lazy kids will learn from their dorm rooms.

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Turn out to be totally correct.

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And that was 20 years ago.

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And ever since then, I have been writing books, creating programs, and sharing a new

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philosophy on creating a rich life.

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That's powerful. I like what you said about this barrier that people have to showing up

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to events. And I think it ties to, you talked about a rich life.

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And what relates for me is a rich life is relative to you.

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And I think that's important to call out that when you say rich, it's not always a

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certain dollar amount that you compare yourself to with other people.

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And you may, and maybe that's what rich is for you.

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But it's important to ask the question like, what would a rich life be for you and know

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what that is and have the clarity to say that you are aiming for this specific place

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and give yourself permission to start somewhere.

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The best day to start is right now.

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It's today.

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That's right. You know, when I asked people what is a rich life for you, the most common

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question, I get this 90 percent of the time .

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People go, I want to do what I want when I want.

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I go, oh, God, not again.

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All right. That's so interesting.

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Wow, I never heard that one.

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And then I go, so what do you want?

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And they stare at me, just flabbergasted, because most of us have never truly thought

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about what our rich life is.

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We think about what emails we have to answer.

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We think about what we need to repair in our house on the weekend, but don't really think

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about what would make it extraordinary.

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And so let me give you a few examples of what your rich life might be.

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Your rich life might be traveling three months a year.

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It might be buying $2,000 cashmere coat.

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Your rich life might be being able to pick up your children from school every afternoon.

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When I was 21 years old, my rich life at that point was to be able to buy appetizers

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when I went out to eat.

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Why? Because when I was a kid, we couldn't afford that.

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So to be able to sit at a menu and say, that looks good, I'm going to get it, was amazing.

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Then I got a little older.

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Rich life for me at that point, what felt incredibly meaningful, was to be able to take

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a taxi on a sweltering August day instead of having to go into the subway.

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And now my rich life has expanded.

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But your rich life is yours.

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It's not mine. It's not anybody else's.

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It's yours. And that's what makes it beautiful.

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That's great.

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And it evolves over time, like you're saying.

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So what you imagine as rich or extraordinary today will change.

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It will evolve.

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But being intentional and paying attention to this over time, something we say is like

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forming this relationship with your goals and dating them over time will help you just

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continue to catch those evolutions as they happen.

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Exactly. We have so many similarities in philosophies.

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Just approach from a different perspective, which I love.

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I think that's awesome.

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Cross-disciplinary engagement is fantastic.

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There are seasons of life and our rich life naturally changes within those.

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In my twenties, I wanted to go out a lot.

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Awesome. I should invest in that.

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I should spend time and money, going out, having fun.

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In my thirties, more traveling, things like that.

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Forty's, for a lot of people, it's family.

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That's traditional.

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And there are lots of ways that you can be traditional, and you can create a rich life.

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You also can be very untraditional.

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I have one of my readers in my book.

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He told me he0 used my material.

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He and his wife retired in their thirties and now they drive an RV around the country.

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Now, let me just tell you something. You're probably not going to find me in an RV.

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It's not really my style, but I love that that's what he and his family decided is

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their rich life.

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So I really want people to turn that dial and refine their vision of a rich life,

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because that's why I say it is a tragedy to live a smaller life than you have to.

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Yeah. You know, I took the quiz.

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I should call it the survey on your website when I was just getting to know you a little

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bit more before we spoke.

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And I thought that was great.

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Some really great questions.

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And I'm the adventurer.

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Nice.

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Yeah.

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Very good. It's very telling.

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Yeah, it wouldn't surprise you if you knew maybe some of my background.

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But it relates to what you were saying before.

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I used to be in extreme sports.

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I was a professional skydiver when I was younger.

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Pilot into aviation, those things.

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But I moved into a new season of life and wanted to grow in different areas.

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And I have a lot of friends that stayed in that world, and I look at what they're up to

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today and I think it's amazing because they're fulfilled, but it's this alignment is

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what's important to me today.

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And they're living in RVs outside of drop zones, traveling the world, still doing that

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thing, but I had a shift in priorities.

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So I really very much what you're saying.

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That's cool. That's really cool.

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For anyone else listening. You can get that quiz at iwillteachyoutoberich.com.

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And I don't know, I think we all intuitively love to learn about ourselves.

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And when you can find out, for example, when I speak to couples and we're talking about

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money and they'll just say something offhandedly and I'll go, oh, tell me about

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that. How did you grow up with money?

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Let me guess, your parents would sit around the dinner table and they might say something

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like, we can't afford it.

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And they just look at me like, how did you know that?

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And it seems like magic but given enough conversations and enough understanding of

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human behavior, you start to see these patterns that repeat themselves a lot.

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And with money, many of us believe that we are logical robots.

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I'm going to the grocery store, I'm buying whatever cereal because I like it.

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And what you don't realize, what we don't realize is that we are the products of the

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influences around us. It's very likely you bought that cereal because mom and dad served

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it to you as a kid and you now associate it with love.

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Now imagine that expanded for what type of vacations you think, how much you think is

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normal to have in the bank.

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Do you believe it's normal to have credit card debt or not, and on and on and on.

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So in order to understand what our rich life is going forward, we've also got to

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understand our past.

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And that really helps you decide which parts of your past you want to keep, which is great

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honor, where you came from, but also which parts you might want to rewrite for this new

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season of life.

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It's so good. We have these beliefs that are the story we tell ourselves, either

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consciously or subconsciously, and try to figure out which of those might be your

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limiting beliefs that are actually anchoring you from where you want to go.

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And I love that you said you got to think about where you're coming from to know where

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you want to go.

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Yeah, I call them invisible scripts because they are the scripts that guide our lives,

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but they're so deeply embedded in us that they are effectively invisible to us.

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I'll give you a few examples.

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There are positive, invisible scripts.

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Like I grew up, as I mentioned, son of immigrants.

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One invisible script in our culture is education is a good thing.

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I think that's probably a pretty good script.

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Maybe it can be taken too far, but in general, I do believe it.

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I think it's been good for me.

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Another script might be we can't afford it.

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A very common phrase that if you hear it a thousand times growing up, guess what?

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You grow up, maybe you have a pretty good income, maybe you start saving money, maybe

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you start investing. I speak to couples on my podcast.

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They go -- I spoke to a couple recently, 60 years old.

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She says, I am about to retire.

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I want to take a trip. I want to start traveling.

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He goes, we can't do it, we need to save money.

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60 years old. I said, what's your net worth?

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$6.3 million.

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So anyone listening is going, whoa, that's so crazy.

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But the fact of the matter is we all behave this way when it comes to money.

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We don't understand how the numbers actually tie to what we want to do.

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We don't understand ratios.

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We don't know how much we can actually afford to spend on a house or a car.

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So we just make these transactional decisions, whatever's in front of us.

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Literally, it's like ordering food at Chipotle.

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That's the level of analysis we assign to like buying a house.

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We don't even think about ratios and affordability and TKO.

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And when I talk to couples, I want them to become better with money.

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I want them to live a rich life.

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In order to do that, you need to do two things.

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One, confidence.

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You need to become confident with money, and that means mastering your money psychology.

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But to become confident, you also need to become competent.

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You need to be able to speak the basic language.

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What is compounding?

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What is a Roth IRA?

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These things are important.

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And if you can do those two things, it's pretty good sign you can design your rich

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life.

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Confidence and competence.

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Yeah. That's pretty good.

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So you said something, if I remember reading this, like spend extravagantly on the things

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that you love, but then also cut very intentionally the things that you don't.

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Be okay with spending money on the things that you really are passionate about.

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Yeah, I say spend extravagantly on the things you love as long as you cut costs mercilessly

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on the things you don't.

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So I'll give you a few examples.

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I love when I hear somebody say Ramit, I absolutely love yoga.

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I go to yoga three times a week.

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I said, oh, that sounds good.

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What else? What else do you do?

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They go, well, I have never told anyone this, but I'm actually saving up to go to a

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yoga retreat in India.

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I go, that's awesome.

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That's what I call a money dial.

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It's something that you love spending money on.

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And you can turn that dial way up.

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What I find is that most of us are taught culturally and through our families that we

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should just try to cut back a little on everything.

Ramit Sethi:

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I go, why, that sucks.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So you're telling me I got to cut back 5 percent on coffee, 5 percent on skydiving, 5

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

percent on clothes, 5 percent on bikes, 5 percent on food.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Why? What kind of life is this?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It sucks.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Let's double, triple, quadruple our spending on the things we love.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Maybe it's fitness. For most people, the number one money dial is eating out.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

The number two, travel.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Number three, health and wellness.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Number four, convenience.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And we can talk about all those.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

But then when I ask people this exercise, I say, what would it look like if you

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

quadrupled your spending on the money dial that you love and their eyes light up, they

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

go, oh my God, like eating out?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I'll give you an example. They go, well, one guy, they always say the same thing.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I'd probably have to go on a diet because I'd be eating out four times a week.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Hahaha. I go, oh God.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

All right. Pretty linear answer.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

As if quadrupling your spend means you just do it four times.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I go, let's go deeper.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Where would you eat?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And he goes, he gets quiet.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I was at a book tour in D.C.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

asking this young man.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

He said, I have a list of every Michelin Star restaurant in D.C.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

one day I would love to eat at.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I said, wow, that sounds amazing.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And then I said, who would you take with you?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It's pin drop silence in the room.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And he looks at me and he says, I would take my family.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Why? Because they could never afford to eat there.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That is a money dial.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And if we start from what you love to do, then we can look at your finances.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And it's very easy to identify what you can cut costs mercilessly on.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Maybe you don't need that type of car or that cable or whatever, but we always start

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

from what your rich life is versus cutting back.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Yeah. There's a couple of examples you shared there where somebody's initial response was

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

what you typically see when you take someone down a goal setting path and you're like,

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

come on, like, imagine where you want to go, what does extraordinary look like?

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And there's a muscle that you have to build, I think, to know how to ask that bigger

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

question to go step further.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And then when you think you're there, go into like uncomfortable even a step further.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And do you have any insight for somebody on how they could when they're starting to ask

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

these questions, like catch themselves and push a little bit further?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Well, what a great example you pointed out that it is a muscle.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So I frequently will see this.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It's reflexive minimization.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I'll say, oh, okay, you love your house.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Fantastic. If you could spend more on your house, if you could live anywhere, where

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

would it be? And they go like this, well, it's not like I need a big house, it's not

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

like I need to live on the beach.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It's just that I need. I go whoa, whoa, hold on.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I'm not asking you to tell me what you don't need.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I'm asking you to tell me what would the dream be?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Let's start from there, and then we can chop it up and make it realistic.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Hey, maybe you want to live on the beach.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Maybe you can't afford a $6 Million beach house.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

How about an Airbnb for a weekend?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Can we start there?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And it is this muscle because this really comes back to our cultural, invisible script

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

of I shouldn't want more.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's for rich people, not people like me.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And what if I set a goal or even say it out loud and then I can't do it?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Then I'm a failure, right?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

These are all little scripts that we have running in our heads.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And one of my goals, it's like, if I were to go skydiving, I've never done it.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I'm going to be afraid, all right.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And I'm going to say all these things in the back of my head.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Maybe I should turn back. Maybe I should not do it.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I don't know. And a great instructor is going to say, look, we went through training.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We're going to take it step by step.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You're going to be with me. We're going to go through it together.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Let's do this together.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's exactly what dreaming bigger requires.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Sometimes you need a little help.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And be aware of those limiting beliefs that you have that are between you and doing that

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

thing that you potentially want to do.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And I always share a funny story.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

When I used to skydive regularly, people would always say like, why would you jump out

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

of a perfectly good airplane?

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

I would never jump out of a perfectly good airplane.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And I would always joke and say, well, have you ever seen a skydiving plane?

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Like there's nothing perfectly good about them.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's really good.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Yeah. And it's funny.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

But then I started thinking about that in my own reflection.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

I'm like, man, what am I telling myself?

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Like, what's my personally, excuse me, perfectly good airplane and putting the

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

mirror back. And it was really interesting to think about things that way.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's interesting. The closest I got to skydiving was I went to a military base.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And we were doing some exercises helping some of the people coming out of the military

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

get jobs and things like that.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So they sort of took us around as civilians for a day.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And they took us to what they call the 34 -foot tower where they train the

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

paratroopers, et cetera. It's 34 feet because that's mathematically the scariest

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

amount for a human.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And of course, there's barbed wire and stuff beneath that.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You have to jump out, your thing hooks on, and then you sort of glide along the path.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

All right.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It's a simulated parachute, and I'm wearing Adidas track pants because it is really hot.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I'm just like a total -- I'm wearing like a Lululemon shirt.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And all these guys are out there.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

They've been voluntold you need to be here and help these civilians.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So they're sitting there sweating in their hot fatigues.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I go, hey, this is a pretty cool pack.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Is this what you guys wear?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And they just laugh. They go, No, sir.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Ours is like £70.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

This is about £25.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I was like, oh, okay.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So we trudge up the stairs.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And what was fascinating was, first of all, there was one of our colleagues coming down

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

the stairs. She'd gotten too afraid and she'd come down.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Okay, fine. We go up and I start talking.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I realize that when I'm going through fear, I start to just overtalk.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Okay, I'm going to put one foot in front of the other.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I'm going to put my chin down.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And the guy's like, shut the F up, jump.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And it was a muscle that I have not really developed.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

As a civilian, I don't really get screamed at that often except on Twitter by nimby losers.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And what I realized was, wow, this is a totally different experience.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And to my colleague's credit, the one who was walking down the stairs.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

She actually got the courage to come back up, conquer her fears and jumped out as well.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So that day was very memorable to me.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And now you're inspiring me to maybe consider doing a real jump.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Oh, that's cool. If it's for you, it's for you.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

I vow to never try to convince someone to skydive, to choose your own adventure kind of

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

thing. We used to joke and say that when you're standing in the door of the airplane

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

and you open it up and it gets really loud and windy, that no, no, no sounds a whole lot

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

like go, go, go.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You guys have some funny phrases.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I like it.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

You have to. You have to make light of a potentially serious scenario.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

But so I want to circle back.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

We talked about the like spend extravagantly on the things that you love.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And so having clarity on, like, what are those things for you?

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And the money dial is awesome.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

It's got to be a little bit more challenging when you think about a couple then, right?

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Because you may have misalignment on some of the things that you want to spend

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

extravagantly on.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Any advice on some of those common issues or how couples could address that?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Well, this is what I absolutely love to talk about.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So when my wife and I were going to get married, we were talking about a prenup.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And we started talking and it was actually going pretty well until it got really hard.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And I'm the money guy.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I've written a best selling book on money.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I've been talking about money every day of my life for the last 20 years.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And I was like, how can it be this hard?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It was very challenging.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And I did all my searches.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I looked on Google. There was nothing great .

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

What I really wished I could find was real couples talking about money, not just some

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

blog posts saying like, have the conversation.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I go, what conversation?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Literally, tell me the words to say and I want to hear couples doing it.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

What I later learned is that for intimate topics like prenups or even how couples

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

should talk about money, it's always behind closed doors.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Think about it. Have you ever actually heard a couple with $600,000 of debt talking about

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

their money?

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Not in a public space.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Nope. And how about a couple with $8 million in the bank bemoaning the fact that they

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

can't fly on this trip because they don't have enough Delta points?

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Again, yeah.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Not the same.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Also no. All we hear is movies.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We see some couple in some Soho apartment talking about money or whatever.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We've never actually heard real couples, and that's what I wanted to do.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So after my wife and I went through our challenging process, we learned a lot.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We actually went to see a therapist, and that therapist asked us a really fascinating

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

question. She said, how do you see money?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And she looked at me first. I was like, oh, I got this, growth.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Like I could literally see compound interest, rule of 72 floating in front of my

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

eyes. I could see it all.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And then she turns to my wife.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

What do you see when you think about money?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

She goes, safety.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I looked at my wife like, huh?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's like saying microwave oven.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It doesn't make any correlation for me.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So for couples, I started bringing them on my podcast, sharing real numbers.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

They all share their income, their debt, how they spend their money and what their problem

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

is. Sometimes they have, like I said, $825,000 in debt, sometimes millions in the

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

bank. Sometimes one of them is a spender or saver or cultural differences.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Some suggestions for couples.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

The biggest problem that is common among couples who are in disagreement about money

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

is they have no rich life vision.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So suggestion number one is to create a rich life vision.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

What is our rich life?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It can't just be travel.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

A better answer would be we want to go to Italy for three weeks.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We want to bring our parents along.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We want to drink Italian wine and watch the sunset over Rome.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's a vision.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Or I don't ever want to have to chop a vegetable again.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Also, a vision. We can use money to solve that problem.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Lots of specific big and small visions you can create.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

The second thing is to talk about money regularly.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Most couples only speak about money when there's a problem.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Well, guess what? If you only talk about when it's a problem, money becomes a problem.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Let's talk about it proactively.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Let's get our logistics out of the way.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Let's set up our accounts correctly, which we can talk about.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And then finally, we can start to turn money from a source of shame and guilt and anger

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

into joy and adventure and generosity.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's how you get started.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Without a doubt, one of the biggest challenges companies will face in 2023 is

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

finding top talent.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

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Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

So how can you break through the clutter and attract the most qualified candidates for

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

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Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And right now, you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/ONEThing.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

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Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

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Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

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Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

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Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Their platform also lets you catch the eye of great candidates by offering attention

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

grabbing labels like urgent training provided, remote, et cetera.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

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Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

the first day. See for yourself.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

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Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

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Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Again, that's ziprecruiter.com /O-N-E-T-H-I-N-G.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

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Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

That's powerful. So cast a vision for what a rich life looks like for you.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Just take the time to align on what that future state is together and create that

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

common purpose, that kind of common vision of where you want to go.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Yeah, I'll give you an example from a couple that I spoke to.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So they earned a pretty good living.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

One earned more than the other.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And the husband did not want to spend money on any assistance around the house.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

For example, he didn't want to hire movers.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And because he works a lot, he only has a limited amount of time and he chose to spend

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

that limited amount of time moving instead of hiring movers, which they could easily

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

afford. This was becoming an issue with children, things like that.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Cultural differences.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So one of them just didn't see the value.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

They said, I'll do it myself.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And the other said, we have money.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We should use it to make our lives easier.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So there's lots of approaches that somebody can take.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And my job is not to sit here and berate people.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It's to ask them a lot of questions and help them understand why they believe what they

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

believe. At the end of the episode, I asked them, not to create their rich life because

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

his answer was, I want a billion dollars.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's not an effective answer.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's basically self-sabotage.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You're probably not going to have a billion dollars.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I said, okay, forget the billion.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

What's your perfect week?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Start on Sunday and take me through Saturday.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So it's like we want to take our kids to the park, we want to have brunch, we want to see

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

our family on Thursday, et cetera.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I said, this is a beautiful vision.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Some time with friends and family.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Some time with alone, one date night, beautiful.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I said, hey, out of curiosity, where's your laundry in this perfect week?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I didn't see you blocking aside three hours to do your laundry.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And they both laughed because they realized in their vision, laundry is not part of their

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

rich life. Guess what?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

They live in New York. They can pay for that to be done very inexpensively.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Problem solved.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So sometimes we can just narrow the scope to our perfect week, and that makes clear what

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

we value and what we don't.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

That's great. I have seen success with something similar, just kind of zooming out

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

and zooming in.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And you need to have the ability to do both because you can get clarity when you're stuck

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

in either place. You're stuck in the weeds and you can't see over the horizon like

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

you're really struggling. Like, stop, hit, pause, zoom out.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

But if you're lost in the fog of the future, maybe sometimes you need to zoom in a little

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

bit and just get some tangible growths and progress and some clarity on where you want

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

to go in the shorter term. That makes sense.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Totally agree. I'll give you an example of what we can do to zoom out real quick.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

This size that I did with my wife, it's a fun one.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

If you're in a relationship and you're like, hey, this all sounds cool.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

What am I supposed to do right now?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Play this game. We did this and it was a blast.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We sat down, two piece of paper and I said, let's create our bucket list.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

But it's not our bucket list before we die.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It's our bucket list of things we want to do in the next ten years where if we did them,

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

it would mean that we lived a rich and meaningful life.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

All right, So she created hers.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I created mine. And then we shared them back and forth.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So one of us was like, I want to learn Spanish.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

The other one said, I want to go skydiving.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

The other one said, like for me, I wanted to write a book in a hotel.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's just the thing I want to do.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And with each of these answers, we were excited.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We were curious. Oh my God, Spanish, why do you want to do that?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Oh, you want to actually go to Mexico?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Oh, wow, skydiving, might have to do that on your own.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I'll meet you at the bottom, et cetera, et cetera.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It's fun, right? You're teasing each other.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You're having fun.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Because some of these items are solo, some are together.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We found a couple that were really meaningful to us.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

One of them was having our ten-year wedding anniversary in a very special location.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Okay, great. So we said, let's zoom in on that one.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We know that it's going to be X years from now.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

How much do you think it will cost for that to make it amazing?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So we both kind of separately wrote our numbers down.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

My number was a lot bigger than hers.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

She was like, ahh.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I was like, trust me, it's going to be sweet.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So my rule is if you have two numbers, go with the bigger one, because even if you get

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

75 percent of the way there, fine.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

This is a rich life, ten-year goal.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It's not something you're going to do two months from now.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So we then reverse engineered it and realized in order to hit that number, we need

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

to save or invest X per month.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And that's the way that we started to create one of our long-term joint goals.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Every month it's like a video game.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You see a little bit of money going in there and you go, wow, we know exactly where we're

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

going to be with all of our loved ones.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That is our rich life.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

That's awesome. Do you see values showing up intentionally in helping give clarity on some

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

of these challenges couples face, like identifying their core values and having some

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

discussion or alignment on those as being maybe a lens that you can help view the

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

future?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I do, but I think it's really hard for people to recognize their own values.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I mean, the people who come listen to this podcast, they understand what core values

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

are. But if you take an ordinary person, say, like, what are your values?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

They're like, what?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

They're like, I like to eat chips.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Is that a value? So I think sometimes values are revealed through a deep series of

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

conversations. It might be, we all kind of -- there's this thing in psychology called

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

the demand effect. If you ask people a certain type of question, they will answer in

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

a certain way. Go ask anybody on the street, what are your favorite things to do?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

One of your top three answers will be travel.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It's like, when was the last time you actually got on a plane?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And so, with values, you tend to get this sort of pre rehearsed answers.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

But if you drill down, what I find really beautiful is that people's values are really

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

quite different. Like for me, I love convenience, love it.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I'm going to sound like a serial killer right now, but I want every part of my house

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

to be so organized that if I go blind, I know exactly where this type of salt is.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I want everything perfectly organized.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I know I sound like a psycho, but that's what I love.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And so therefore, I've built my life around convenience.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You might build your life around relationships, but it's really hard to just

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

ask somebody like, what's your values?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Instead, I think we talk about what would you love to do?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

What do you want to do more of?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

What could you give up and you wouldn't care about?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

What would make you and your family have an unforgettable experience.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And suddenly, it becomes very clear.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Do they value relationships?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Do they value extravagance?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Do they value X, Y, Z?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And then it tells me where to take it from there.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

That makes sense. Yeah.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And you said that people view values differently.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And my experience, that is very true.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

But also, they may interpret the same values differently.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

So what family or excellence or travel or freedom means to one person may mean

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

something very different to another.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Fantastic point. I don't actually like when people give me words like freedom.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I'm like, what's money for?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

They go freedom. I go, what?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

What? That's just a word.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Let's get specific.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Yeah, it's vague.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And a rich life is lived in vivid details.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So if freedom means that you can go lift weights at 3 p.m.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

every day, tell me that because then we can work with that.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That means you need to change your calendar.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Maybe you need to have enough to afford a personal trainer, whatever.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

But if you just say freedom, so many of us hide behind these vague words and then what

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

do we do? We do what everybody else does.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We believe that the American dream is get married, buy a house you can't afford in the

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

suburbs where you don't see any of your friends, move to Florida one day, die.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I'm like, hmm, okay, if that's what you love, great, but maybe there's a different

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

path for some people.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You have to articulate it.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Nobody's going to give it to you without you doing that work.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Absolutely. It's why it's so important that your goals are specific, and measurable, and

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

you get them to it. I always say that your goals are like a destination.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And to know that you've arrived there, you need to know specifically where that

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

destination is.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Then you can kind of reverse engineer your milestones back from that destination, and it

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

may change over time.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Your destination might move, but at least you're intentional and specific about where

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

you're going.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Yeah, totally agree.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Yeah. So we talked about couples in some of the early challenges they run into.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

What about someone who's maybe a little further down the path or a couple that's

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

further down the path and maybe they've started this, but they're like off track or

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

they feel like they don't have a good system in place to stay on track over time or be

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

accountable to it? They've imagined where they want to go and they've done some of that

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

work, but they're further down and they find themselves picking their head up and being

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

like, shoot, we've gone two years and we're totally disconnected from our goals.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Yeah, that's very common.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

First of all, I don't mind it. It's super common.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Life is messy.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And so, like I remember I spoke to a couple just a couple of episodes ago.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And during our recording, their kids were just screaming, running around, and I kind of

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

loved it. I'm like, this is real.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Your kids do not care that you're on a podcast, you've waited months, they're just

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

kids. And so first of all, let's just accept that life is not a perfectly organized desk

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

with a single cup of jasmine tea steaming.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You know, life is messy. We've got to live in that messy life.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Okay, fine. That's number one.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I don't have any problem with that.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Number two is that we often look at money as a series of transactional decisions.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Should I buy this car?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Should I get this cheesecake?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Should we get a double-double at In and Out?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It's just one pointless decision after another that doesn't really connect to our

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

rich life. And so what I like to do, you know, I love systems.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I told you about those scholarships that I created.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I want a system for your money.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's why I wrote I Will Teach You To Be Rich.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So let me give you some basic, simple overview of how you can set this up to really

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

eliminate most of this.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You should spend about an hour a month on your finances if you have this working.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You have a joint account where income goes into it.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

This is a simple version.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Each of you has individual accounts where you take a percentage of your money, and it

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

goes into individual accounts.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You can use that for anything you want, no questions asked, whatever it may be.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

In the joint account, you're paying for, presumably your joint living situation, your

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

rent or mortgage, groceries, et cetera, and you split your money.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You only need to track four numbers.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Just four. This is all a template of my conscious spending plan.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

The first number is your fixed costs.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That would be your housing, your car, any debt payments, cable, groceries, the stuff

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

that you pay. That should be 50 to 60 percent of your take home.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

The next would be your savings, 5 to 10 percent of your take home pay or after-tax

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

pay. Your investments, 5 to 10 percent.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I'd really like to see that number a little higher depending on your age.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

But 10 percent, let's say, for take home pay for investments.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And finally, my favorite guilt free spending that's going out to eat.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It's buying beautiful clothes, decorating the house, whatever.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Guilt free, 20 to 35 percent of take home.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Those are general recommendation guidelines.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

If you are hitting those numbers, you're in pretty good shape.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Typically, where there's conflict is number one, people have no clue.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

They're like, what's a conscious spending plan and what are fixed costs?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's because they're making transactional decisions.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Two, they don't have a rich life vision.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And three, they don't have a place to talk about it.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So if you set that system up alone, 90 percent of your problems will vanish

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

overnight.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

That's awesome. I love how you go to systems because, I mean, it's so common that life

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

gets crazy, like you said.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And if you don't have a system to fall back on, life's going to take you over and you get

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

steamrolled. And you need to have a consistent framework that you're using time

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

over time. And to your point, like break it down in its simplest form and those are some

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

really great tips and pointers.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Let me give you a suggestion on some advanced stuff that can help people simplify because

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

people listening are a little bit more advanced, I think.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And I want to share how you can proactively plan instead of constantly being reactive

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

with your money. All right.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Oftentimes you find people, they'll say something like, it feels like we take one

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

step forward and two steps back.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We pay off something, something breaks.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

But given enough time and information, even unexpected expenses become relatively

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

predictable. So let's break it down.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

If you and your partner sit down, you say, hey, let's take this conscious spending plan

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

and let's actually plan out our year.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Month by month, what do we think the unexpected expenses are going to be?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Oh, boy. Well, our anniversary is going to be in March.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I'd really love to take a nice trip or have a nice dinner, get a babysitter.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Okay, let's put that down right now.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

In December, we're going to travel.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We should write that down.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Oh, in fact, let's talk about where we're going to go.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Okay, cool. Have that conversation.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You start to plan for things and then you even plan for the unexpected.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Like I used to have a stupid mistakes account.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And that would be things like a parking ticket or some fee that I forgot.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

If that's a case for you, maybe a maintenance account, you know that something

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

in your house is going to break or your car.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Cool, let's just put 20 bucks aside every month or 50 bucks aside.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Suddenly, when summer camp comes up or a trip or a college friend from out of town is

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

like, hey, let's take a trip, whatever that may be, you have put aside money for it.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

This is how you start to take control and go on offense with your money instead of playing

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

defense for the rest of your life.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

That's such a great point. Like the offense versus defense and giving your money a job

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

proactively instead of responding to what's happening to you and reacting.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

It's such a great point. I know from my own experience doing some of that month over

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

month and year over year, you start to identify those buckets you need for yourself

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

that unless you're paying really close attention to it, you don't see the pattern

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

showing up. You're just not tracking it.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And I have to say, I don't really want to sit there and look at my Safeway receipt for the

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

price of asparagus.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Like if I find myself looking at counting the price of asparagus, I'm in hell and I've

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

taken a wrong turn in life.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's why I say four numbers to track, four numbers.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So if, for example, one partner is in charge of groceries, you really should not be

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

sitting there being like, why did you go to Target?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Why did you buy this? It's like, mind your business, your partner is in charge.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You've both agreed on a number.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Now give them ownership, let them do it.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And hey, if they overspend, then fine, things happen.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We'll get back on track later.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Notice the fluidity and the comfort versus rigidity.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Why did you do that? How much did you spend?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

How are we supposed to get ahead?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Rigidity comes from not having a system and not understanding how this tiny little

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

decision affects our overall rich life.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Fluidity is mastery, comfort.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Knowing that, you know what, it's okay if something goes a little wrong over here

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

because we've already built in a little bit of wiggle room and we are still focused on

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

the big picture.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Yeah, it goes back to what we were saying before about zooming in and zooming out a

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

little bit too. If you zoom in too much on the individual line items in there that

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

you're tracking and not zoom out to like, hey, this quarter, we're way ahead.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's why people fight so much.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And honestly, it's frustrating to hear because I always tell them, you're so focused

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

on $3 questions that you've totally neglected asking the $30,000 questions.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

They're sitting over here saying, oh my God, I can't believe you bought that Kraft cheese.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Why don't we get to go?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Why are we talking about Kraft cheese?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

This makes no sense.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Meanwhile, they're not asking $30,000 questions.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

The ones that actually matter, like, what's our savings rate?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

They don't even know what a savings rate is.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

What's our asset allocation?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

What's that? What's our debt payoff date?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Ninety-five percent of people I talked to who are in debt do not know what date their

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

debt would be paid off. That's a $30,000 question.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So you could go the rest of your life doing $3 questions.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Oh, why'd you get that at Starbucks?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Or you can get the 5 to 10 big questions, the $30,000 questions right, and you never

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

have to worry about coffee or what type of aluminum foil you buy at the grocery store.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You can hear me getting aggravated because how many people spend their entire lives

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

playing small?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

They are living that $3 life.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

They actually find comfort in that $3 life.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

But if you ask them, do you want to be doing this for the rest of your life, they say, no.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Fantastic, let's change.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Love it. We talk a lot about Pareto principle in our teachings in the 80-20 rule, and what

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

we say is, what Pareto principle represents is there 20 percent things you could focus on

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

that would deliver 80 percent of your results in a lot of forms and fashions.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And that's what comes out for me when you say that it relates to me, it's like, figure

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

out what's the 20 percent that if you focused on that, would deliver 80 percent of

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

your results. And what we find is so many people focus on the 80 percent.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I know.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Spending all their time on the other things.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Well, I'm guilty of that too.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

That were not comparing those big ROI.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I get it and we've all done it.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

In fact, I bet all of us are doing it right now in some part of our life.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

I totally understand the visceral appeal.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Like let me just fix that one thing and what I've realized, especially running my own

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

business for almost 20 years, is that you have to be willing to have certain things be

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

broken forever.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And it's actually fine.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And if you are getting, in my case, the four numbers in the conscious spending plan right,

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

you're actually doing fantastic.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

You do not need to comparison shop for the price of pickles.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

All right. And you do not need to worry about should I drive an extra mile to save

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

$0.10 a gallon on gas?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

No, you don't even need to worry about that.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's actually hard for people because that's mostly what we've known.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's probably what our parents taught us.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So to be able to realize, like, it actually doesn't matter.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And I have elevated myself to bigger questions.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

That's quite an uncomfortable moment on your personal identity, but to me, this is the joy

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

of really creating a breakthrough where you start to see money as bigger than can I save

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

$0.10?

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Absolutely.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

So powerful. And it's a mindset shift to think that way, which is typically the

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

uncomfortable place to go.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

But I always believe and that's a good indication when you're starting to feel

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

uncomfortable, you're in that growth zone.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

You need to lean in.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

That's where you want to go.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Totally.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Ramit, so much synergy between us and what you teach.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And if our listeners want to learn more about your process, check you out, be a part

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

of your world, where can they find you?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

First thing is, if you like what you're hearing, you want to hear me talking to real

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

couples with real numbers from behind closed doors, just go to the I Will Teach You To Be

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Rich podcast and you can find us on audio.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

We also do it on video now so you can actually see the couples and their facial

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

expressions and body language.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It's quite fascinating.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And of course, you can get access to all my material, including the conscious spending

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

plan on my website, iwillteachyoutoberich .com.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Awesome. No, that's pretty cool that couples are willing to be vulnerable like that.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

That's awesome. What a great breakthrough.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

And I'm sure there's a ton of value in being able to watch that.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

I know in doing this and coaching and also being a participant in certain things that

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

sometimes it's almost more valuable to watch somebody else have a breakthrough from an

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

outside perspective than to be in the hot seat.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

So it's a good way to learn.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Yep, totally.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Awesome. Well, hey, if you could have our listeners take away one thing from the

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

conversation today, what would that be?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

It would be that money is meant to be used on a rich life.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So my challenge to everyone here is what is your rich life in specific, vivid details?

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And if you want to do it solo, you want to do it with a partner, whatever works.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

And I'd actually love to hear from you.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

So if you want to send me a message on social media, tell me you heard me listening

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

here, and I'd love to hear what your rich life is.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

Awesome. Hey. Thanks so much for your time today and all your wisdom.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

It's great to talk to you.

Ramit Sethi:

Speaker:

Thanks. It was a pleasure.

Chris Dixon:

Speaker:

All right. Bye, everybody.

Outro:

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